You mentioned it at the end - a Genestealer can't dodge the attacks of the Guardsmen because they're a Horde. Even once it gets close, the Genestealer won't be outstanding at damaging the Horde (though with 4 melee attacks, it can still do some decent damage). The biggest factor, I think, is what role Fear plays. I don't recall any rules with Fear for Hordes (though I may have read it and forgotten), but I can definitely see a group of ill-prepared Guardsmen breaking ranks and fleeing at the sight of a Genestealer or two racing towards them.
Are the revised weapon statistics designed to get Space Marines killed?
Brand said:
You mentioned it at the end - a Genestealer can't dodge the attacks of the Guardsmen because they're a Horde. Even once it gets close, the Genestealer won't be outstanding at damaging the Horde (though with 4 melee attacks, it can still do some decent damage). The biggest factor, I think, is what role Fear plays. I don't recall any rules with Fear for Hordes (though I may have read it and forgotten), but I can definitely see a group of ill-prepared Guardsmen breaking ranks and fleeing at the sight of a Genestealer or two racing towards them.
Fear is a killer, and rightly so, but so is 4 attacks with a potential of 6 degrees of success on each. 3 on the charge and deffinately going first, crossing over 30m on a charge (if they are still like CA at all). With sprints of god knows how far and hard target and really good sneaking skills.
Plus they really should have re-rolls on scything talons, or additional mag damage with rending talons, rules for feeder tendrils. There's a fair amount of stuff that they didn't need to include about the badguys that we won't see till Genestealer the 40K rpg comes out 
Assuming that you subscribe to the theory that Guardsmen are ill-prepared and low on morale, instead of the cream of a planet's infantry, deemed worthy of the expense of shipping half way across the galaxy, of course.
Siranui said:
Assuming that you subscribe to the theory that Guardsmen are ill-prepared and low on morale, instead of the cream of a planet's infantry, deemed worthy of the expense of shipping half way across the galaxy, of course.
Those are stormtroopers you're thinking of.
No, I'm really not. Those are apparently rarer than Space Marines. I'm thinking of Imperial Guard. Herding a load of cowards who don't know how to use a las gun onto a transport, taking them across the galaxy for 6 months (and neglecting to instil any discipline in them or indeed weapon training during that period) and dropping them into a warzone makes zero sense at all.
Secondary and tertiary PDF might be inept, but for the Guard to be that rubbish makes no sense. I'd expect at LEAST the training of a modern professional NATO infantryman.
I digress. It just bugs me.
Siranui said:
No, I'm really not. Those are apparently rarer than Space Marines. I'm thinking of Imperial Guard. Herding a load of cowards who don't know how to use a las gun onto a transport, taking them across the galaxy for 6 months (and neglecting to instil any discipline in them or indeed weapon training during that period) and dropping them into a warzone makes zero sense at all.
It makes perfect sense that you'd have to start drafting and deploying sub-par soldiers if the cream of the crop has been recruited, trained, deployed and killed in action already.
Yeah but then you're neglecting the immensity of the Galaxy, and therefore the immenisty of the recruiting pool.
I agree to say that Guardsmen don't utterly suck. The thing would be, though, that imperial tactics are more inspired by a steamroller approach than by any reasonable warfare theory 
As for Genestealers VS Hordes: yeah, of course, but here we are neglecting one or two details.
The first and foremost being that Stealers don't get rules VS Hordes because they're not supposed to be fighting them (don't have MotX right now, so YMMV depending on that I suppose), they're not the protagonists of Deathwatch. Against individual Guardsmen, they'll be the deadly horrible creatures we all know and love. From far, if possible.
Stormast said:
Yeah but then you're neglecting the immensity of the Galaxy, and therefore the immenisty of the recruiting pool.
I agree to say that Guardsmen don't utterly suck. The thing would be, though, that imperial tactics are more inspired by a steamroller approach than by any reasonable warfare theory
As for Genestealers VS Hordes: yeah, of course, but here we are neglecting one or two details.
The first and foremost being that Stealers don't get rules VS Hordes because they're not supposed to be fighting them (don't have MotX right now, so YMMV depending on that I suppose), they're not the protagonists of Deathwatch. Against individual Guardsmen, they'll be the deadly horrible creatures we all know and love. From far, if possible.
First, we have a perfect in-universe example of sub-par soldiers being recruited - the second mission of TEP. On Karlack, IIRC, it was said they were down to recruiting young boys and old men to ship to the warzone.
I don't have MotX, either, so I'm just running off what I remember from the main book. A Genestealer CAN take down a Horde if it's smart. It just needs to go more the Alien route by picking off a few at a time, using darkness to stay unnoticed, and spreading fear rather than just blindly charging the front lines, where the troops have weapons at the ready and are looking for something to shoot.
Stormast said:
Yeah but then you're neglecting the immensity of the Galaxy, and therefore the immenisty of the recruiting pool.
I agree to say that Guardsmen don't utterly suck. The thing would be, though, that imperial tactics are more inspired by a steamroller approach than by any reasonable warfare theory
As for Genestealers VS Hordes: yeah, of course, but here we are neglecting one or two details.
The first and foremost being that Stealers don't get rules VS Hordes because they're not supposed to be fighting them (don't have MotX right now, so YMMV depending on that I suppose), they're not the protagonists of Deathwatch. Against individual Guardsmen, they'll be the deadly horrible creatures we all know and love. From far, if possible.
For the record I don't actually think the Purestrain Genestealer suck... that thing is a monster when fighting against DW kill-team...
My whole post was more of tongue-in-cheek answer to your claim that guardsman couldn't kill em 
Simple fact is most Elite (or even Master) level enemy who's primary defense is being gast (i.e. Good dodge/parry score, with multiple reaction) suffer greatly against Horde who can shoot more time than they can dodge and cannot be parried/dodged in CC.
The Genestealer vs Hordes example is actually skewed, as GS are the kind of monsters Hordes can actually kill... but if you put that same Guardsman Horde vs says... a Plague Marine, with his TB of 15 and Armor of 10, they'd odd of even dealing 1 point of damage to him per shot are very very bad.
Needs more Fire Warrior hordes, imo.