Could someone tell me there thoughts around handling killing sleeping enemy?

kind regards

sean

boggle said:

Stealth Check to approach enemy (With fortune dice because they're sleeping)

Very Easy combat Check to kill the enemy outright

There are two reasons why I would require a combat check:

1) Killing an enemy in their sleep still has to be done right, plunging a dagger into their stomach is unlikely to kill them outright, nor is cutting their windpipe but missing their jugular/carotid.

2) Chaos Stars present a wonderful oppourtunity for things to go wrong - cutting a jugular vein but not the carotid artery is going to give an enemy a few wide-eyed panic-moments of life - plunging a sword into the chest but missing the heart will have a similar effect (perhaps more prolonged) - throttling or bashing an opponent can lead to inconvenient leg spasms etc.

One thing I would not bother with is damage - One success means the attack succeeds outright and kills the enemy

Boons I would use for useful things one the body (loot or keys or insignia etc)

Banes I would use at the discretion of the situation, same with Comets

many thanks for that answer very useful..

Unless there is some reason why the player can't kill them automatically, then it's automatic. A stealth check at most to sneak in close. After that a sword to the neck gets you dead.

Automatic success in this seems to me a waste of a properly disgusting and sanity-blasting event - just like Apocryphal lore suggested.

Also, is it really that simple and easy - in the dark and all? Even headsmen seem to have got it botched frequently in the middle ages, despite their experience and well prepared work environs.

Even in the Old World, I think many would have some reservations about killing helpless victims even though they were enemies, and all you need is a moment of hesitation for things to go awfully wrong...

I would allways do a check, because of the Chaos Stars, which could provide interesting results (did you drop evidence at the scene, splash blood all over yourself, leave the victim for dead, when in fact he's still breathing? etc...).

I agree with Kryyst. Everything you need is in that Stealth check. That should cover sneaking up and killing the target. Maybe they cry out on a chaos star, or someone comes by after the deed is done.

Rolling just to see what happens on the kill itself seems indulgent. Everything that can go wrong is covered by the previous check.

Doc, the Weasel said:

It's really just subjective though.... I want 1) the chance for the enemy to wake up on approach and fight back and 2) the drama of having something go wrong... but then I'm assuming this isn't something the players do in the manner they would to put on a boot... regardless, anyone is free to choose whatever manner they deal with things, I'm sure some GMs ignore attack rolls altogether in favour of descriptive narratives.

Apocryphal Lore said:

What I'm trying to get at is that there is nothing that the second roll can determine that can't be determined in the first. Let me explain with an example:

Kill the guy in his sleep

Stealth(Ag) vs Observation(Int)

(-1 Challenge die because the target is asleep, but +1 for the killing part, so it evens out)

+1 fortune die for each rank of Weapon Skill trained

+2 fortune for darkness

+2 misfortune if someone else is sleeping in the room too

---

1 Success: You sneak up to the target and stab. The target takes damage+4.

3 Successes: You sneak up to the target and stab. The target dies.

2 boons: If the target is still alive, they are too surprised to call out next round

2 banes: The target makes a noise while dying. Have the guards make a Average Observation Check to hear.

3 banes: as above, but the Observation check is Easy.

--

Failure: The target wakes up with you at close range. roll initiative

2 boons: you can start the fight engaged with the waking target

2 boons: you quickly kick away the target's nearby weapon to medium range, before they can grab it

1 bane: The waking target yells out before initiative is rolled

2 banes: The waking target draws a weapon before initiative is rolled

--

Chaos star: A patrol is nearby (close range from the door) and can hear any scuffle (-1 challenge die for observation checks)

Forcing an unnecessary second roll takes the victory away from the successful first. That may be required in other games that can gauge only success/failure (I'm looking at you d20), but this system expresses so much with one roll that breaking it down like that wastes all the potential that the first roll gives.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Listen you miserable piece of .... oh, wait... no, that's quite reasonable - I can see where you're going with that now. Yeah, I agree with Doc - this is a better use of the system. Depending on the style of the game, I might still use 2 rolls but I think that the one roll is a very viable option if done as described. Thanks for posting this Doc, very helpful to all I should think, myself particularly.