Hi guys,

we know that when a character cannot be killed, he can be choosen by the Red Wedding but cannot die because of it's effect. That fact prevents the other character from claiming power.

Now, what happens if one of the characters cannot claim power and the other can be killed? Is it different because of the order of the sentences? I mean, killing a character comes first and then, once you've killed the first character, the other claims two power. By the time you "realize" the other character cannot claim power the first one has already been killed. That's what my intuition tells me but I'm not sure about it. Any comments on this?

Thank you!

Basically, the kill and the power claim are independent of each other. It's not "choose and kill 1 character. Then, the other claims 2 power." That's not what the card says. The kill and the power claim happen simultaneously. But I think if you have a character than cannot be killed, it cannot be chosen to be killed, so you would have to choose the other one instead while the "cannot be killed" one claims 2 power.

I could be wrong, though.

Saturnine said:

Yeah, that's why I'm not sure about what happens in this case

Can you give an example? I cannot think of a character that cannot claim power or a card effect that would prevent a character from doing so (aside from specific restrictions like "cannot claim power for renown" which wouldn't apply).

Theres a new Shireen coming up that kneels to make a character "cannot claim power".

Well, I'd say it's the same as "cannot be killed", so the character couldn't be chosen to claim power and must be killed instead. The most interesting scenario would be a character that can neither be killed nor claim power.

OK, remember that if something "cannot be X," two things apply:

1. That card cannot be specifically chosen for X to happen to it.
2. The result of X does not happen to the card when an effect does X in general.

The easy example is "cannot be killed." You cannot use something like "Die By the Sword" on a CBK character because you are not allowed to do the requisite choosing of the character for the event to identify its target. (That's #1 above.) In the same light, if an effect like Valar tries to kill the CBK character without specifically choosing it first, the death just never happens. (That's #2) above.

So, look at the text on Red Wedding: "When revealed, the opponent to your left chooses 1 Lord and 1 Lady character, if able. Then, you must choose and kill 1 of those characters. The other claims 2 power."

That plays out very simply as "Lord/Lady #1 is chosen to be killed. The other claims 2 power without being specifically chosen to claim power."

So, if a Lord/Lady cannot be killed, you are not allowed to choose it to be the one that dies for Red Wedding because of #1 above. But you still must choose one of them to die and, since you only have one legal option, you must choose the non-CBK character to die.

If you have a character that cannot claim power, though, that doesn't play into the choice of which character dies and which claims power at all because the effect does not choose the character that claims power. It is simply a general "the other gets power" effect - which would not resolve successfully for the "cannot claim power" character the same way that Valar slides off a CBK character.

So, your scenarios are:

1. Lord & Lady chosen by opponent. One "cannot be killed." (You must choose the one that can be killed to die. The CBK collects 2 power.)
2. Lord & Lady chosen by opponent. One "cannot claim power." (You may choose either one to die. If you do not choose the "cannot claim power" character to die, it will not get the 2 power. No one will.)
3. Lord & Lady chosen by opponent. Once "cannot be killed." The other "cannot claim power." (You must choose the "cannot claim power" one to die because "cannot be killed" prevents you from choosing it to die - has nothing to do with the "cannot claim power". CBK character will claim 2 power.)
4. Lord & Lady character chosen by opponent. One is both "cannot be killed" and "cannot claim power." (You must choose the other one to die, but the combined CBK/no power character will not get the power.)
5. Lord & Lady character chosen by opponent. Both are "cannot be killed." (You cannot choose either one to die. Since no choice is made, there is no "other" and while neither dies, there is no power gain, either.)
6. Lord & Lady character chosen by opponent. Both are "cannot claim power." (Either one can be chosen to die, but no power can be gained.

There are a couple of other scenarios, but with what is here, you should be able to work them through.

The important thing here is that you are not choosing anything to claim power, so "cannot claim power" will have no effect, one way or the other, on what you choose to die.

Thanks, ktom. As always, you're a light in the darkness of our inability to process printed text.

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense