So while reading through some of the recent comments and discussion, it seems like people seem to think that Bara isn't doing that well? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to be that the majority puts them at the middle of the pack at best. Really? I mean Baratheon is possibly the fastest its been since VED. Bara noble rush being too inconsistent? Against what house? I'll give it to you that Martell is still the bane of their existence. However, the reprint on paper shield should probably help this alot. Also, the biggest problem, at least in my experience, was a good shadows deck. Well, I haven't seen many shadows decks in the last few tourney reports I've read. Although I admit I did just skim most of them. So I think that a good solid bara noble rush deck would actually be very hard to stop.

Now, with that said, I still think that bara's strongest build is probably the asshai build. Their ability to field just HUGE tricon characters is pretty nutty. Not to mention the control elements you get from the shadows cards and Lord of Light protect us. I actually am thinking that Bara is in the number two slot right behind Martell. The problem I think is that people just don't play Bara that much. They are def a house that is alot better in play than they look on paper. So is there anyone else who sees this? Or am I just crazy?

Staton said:

I'm new to the scene, but from your description it sounds like the issue isn't how bad Bara is, but how Bara loses to Martell. It doesn't matter if you can beat the other 4 Houses consistently, if you have a bad match-up against the best House (which will be the most played house), then you will not be effective at tournaments.

Ran Bara noble Rush for the last couple months. It's strong all right, and faster than it's been in years. Still not faster than Lanni kneel or Martell Icon manip at the moment.

Also, I agreee that Asshai hand destruction/delayed rush is the best build right now.

I agree for the most part, Staton. They just seem to be underplayed at the moment. *shrug* So's Greyjoy, but lately I'm discovering they have a lot of untapped potential. At least Baratheon's power cards still seem pretty obvious to me.

Also, why are you not playing Bara at LCG Days? You really should and show the naysayers up.

Well... that or lose to me. But that's nothing new anyway.

I agree, they have issues against arguably the two main builds (Martell, Lanni Kneel). Rush will also have an air of issues with consistancy - not sure if that is true or not, but whenever I play rush it seems that the deck totally craps out 1 of 5 games, and since it is made for speed, it is hard to recover (moreso than control). *shrug* Obviously I am not an expert (although I have beat lots of rush decks over the years, especially vs. Stanton or the Missouri meta ), so all of this with a grain of salt.

Staton said:

Yeah Staton, I agree completely – Bara is plenty strong these days. I think the main reasons people talk about them less are …

(1) Very few of the most successful (tournament) players regularly play Bara, at least in North America. So Bara tends to not win as many tournaments, and is therefore viewed as having less potential. (One could make the argument that these players choose to avoid Bara because they see the house as weak, but having talked with a number of them about the house, I’m certain it has a lot more to do with personal playstyle/preferences.)

(2) The recent FAQ drowned the excitement. Bara was set to get a HUGE boost from TLS and Heir before the most recent FAQ hit. These cards could have pushed Bara to position #1, and would have easily made it competitive against Martell and Lanni. In other words, it isn’t that Bara is bad, it’s just that Bara players are less excited (or more frustrated) about the house.

(3) Bara still loses at least 50% of the time to Lanni and Martell. Given that the most skilled players (in terms of tournament wins) have been playing one of those two houses, I’d say actual losses are probably more like 80-90%. So yeah, this isn’t an easy match up. (For the record, I think some people assume Lanni and Martell’s match up against Bara is easier than it actually is. In reality, I think this match up can be hard for the control players too.)

Is it just me? Or si there some real funkiness about the this thread?!

Ruvion said:

quality forum software strikes again

Yep, I'm having the same issues.

Seems like Stag Lord is trying to sabotage this thread from outside the game.

I have played bara for the last 2 years in regionals. I am not sure if I will do it again or not.

The thread is being targeted by an anti-Baratheon conspiracy! Or something like that. Maybe just envious Lannisters.

One thing that always strikes me odd, is that the results of the Euro/US OCTGN Tourney we had before Christmas are always somehow forgotten... Relevant here, since it was won by Alberto playing a Bara-Knights deck, while beating a Lanni-kneel (don't remember the player, sorry) in the semis and Longclaw with a Martell KOTHH in the final.

The thread containing the decklist and results is here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=16&efcid=4&efidt=419875&efpag=0#420217

That would at least give some indication that Baratheon is able to go head-to-head with those two houses in major competitions, and come out on top. Granted, the cardpool has changed a bit since then, but not in a way clearly disfavoring the Stags over all the rest.

There's always the problem of getting Baratheon decks to run consistently (requires quite a bit of work and is more akin to an art), but overall I'd have to agree with Staton that Baratheon is right now probably the fastest it has ever been in the LCG (regardless of the mental loss of not being able to play Heir). The cardpool also has a really nice breadth, allowing for lots of different types of builds, from shadow-based control and hand-destruction to both knight and noble-based rush builds.

Also the newer options of running either Widow's Watch or Pyro's Cache should help Baratheon become both more consistent, and help sustain the pressure.

...now to see if I can manage to post this thing despite all the funkyness...