My group are in slightly different situation where by the RT was meant to inherit the family Warrent, but his younger brother had him removed and took it over for himself, declaring the RT dead.

The group have managed to come together and are now working under another RT as one of his captains.

The Adminstration have put the family Warrent on hold, pending investigation. Which I'm sure will take a very long time.

So I'm going to encourage to group to but another.

My Question is how much PF would it take to buy a new one? They are starting from scratch and are paying tithe to another RT.

That's not how Warrants work, but the value is x, where x is what the GM thinks it's worth.

Errant - would you mind expanding on which bit is wrong. Please bare in mind that I am fudging things a bit, in order to make the work for thing power/rights.

In all honesty, is shouldn't be possible to buy a Warrant of Trade. These things are supposed to only be granted by the highest authorities in response to the most heroic of deeds.

In practice... Warrants have been stolen, gambled and traded, always for ridiculous sums of money (entire star systems being a sensible minimum value for a bid), as well as having new ones issued as a result of epic blackmail, massive bribes (again, gross star system product level of massive) and political skulduggery.

So, if you're going to allow them to buy a new Warrant (and they aren't going to settle for one of the more limited Charters and Letters of Marque) rather than require them to do epic stealage/assassination/smear campaigns (Personally, I'd go for one of those options), then not only should you most definitely require them to do it as a Grand Endeavour, but you should also be asking them to sacrifice (as in, permanently lose) at least 50 PF.

Ah, Ok.

Then what I really need is a charter/letter of marque that specifically will allow them to take back the warrent using whatever they can muster together.

Thanks, that makes things a little easier. For me at least.

Losing 50 PF for a warrant does not seem reasonable.

PF is the sum of the dynasty's power, not the number of gold pieces in their money bin. Having a Warrant of Trade adds to the dynasty's power. Buying one should only reduce PF if they're desperate or incompetent and pay more than it's worth. Instead, a Warrant of Trade should be a very difficult acquisition. A group with a crappy PF simply won't be able to get hold of one.

I think 50 PF is quite fair. If the group wants to barter for one/gamble for one.

If they are more devious about it, or simply more heroic, the Warrantn is a very cheap thing, moneywise.

Think blackmail of the sector admiral or the like.

Achieveing the conquest of a whole solar system with little help for the Imperium.

Pretty much a whole story arc by itself.

This really goes to the issue of "Who can issue Warrants of Trade?"

Putting aside historical Warrants issued by the Emperor, Primarchs etc, and concentrating on NEW Warrants... The RT Collector's Edition contains a sample warrant which is ostensibly signed off by the High Lords of Terra themselves. So does this mean that only the High Lords of Terra can issue Warrants of Trade?

I would argue not.

Just from a practical point of view, the number of Rogue Traders operating in the Koronus Expanse alone implies that there are hundreds of thousands - probably milions - of them in the Imperium. After all the Expanse is a relatively obscure area of wilderness space,and its got a gold rush going on involving dozens of dynasties. Are the High Lords of Terra really sitting around all day rubber-stamping warrants of trade?

Of course not. They delegate.

There's a vast bureaucracy sitting beneath the High Lords of Terra - the Administratum. This organisation is responsible for every aspect of the day to day mundane running of the Imperium. I would imagine this covers things like deciding who is able enough (or enough of a nuisance) to become a Rogue Trader.

The most senior authority figure in an Imperial Sector tends to be the Sector Governor, and beneath him the Subsector Governors. These are partly administrative and partly political figures. As they are - on the face of it - the only figures that outrank a peer of the imperium, it seems to me logical to suggest that these figures, as part of their duties, are responsible for recommending to the High Lords of Terra (or their administrative lackeys on Terra) that a Warrant of Trade should be issued.

So I'm suggesting that in practice, there's a local hierarchy of well placed nobles and Imperial officials who have the collective clout to obtain a warrant of trade for anyone they want, and having that issued "in the name of " the High Lords of Terra. (Oh, and probably the Inquisition can do this, too. Though they may have to make it look like they're going through the same procedure as everyone esle to keep their involvement secret.)

So can you "buy" a Warant of Trade? Well...yes. But you'd need to go through a hell of a lot of politiciking in order to be able to do so. The equivalent would be getting the US president to issue a passport to some random non- US citizen using his power and influence. Yes, he's got the power to do so...but why should he? If he's an honest president, he'd ask "What's in it for the US?" If he's dishonest he'd ask "What's in it for me?"

The trick is to think in terms of giving the equivalent of the US president in that metaphor -Marius Hax, Sector Governor of the Calixis Sector, a **** good reason why he would WANT to recommend to the High Lords that they issue your players with a Warrant of Trade. I would suggest that this be a greater endeavour set within the Calixis Sector and beyond. It could be a great chronicle, a successive series of tasks carried out at the behest of capricious and depraved subsector governors, bribes on an epic scale, favours played off each other, promises made, missions set....

It certainly shouldn't be a matter of going to the warrant shop and using up some profit factor...

Anyway, just a few thoughts!

EDIT: Oh and to add to these thoughts, here are some wild speculations on who would have the power, in practice, to obtain warrants of trade using their political clout:-

The Emperor - Well if he ever starts giving orders again, maybe.

The High Lords of Terra - 'nuff said. Their word is law.

Segmentum Governor - This is a figure who the individual Sector Governors report to, a massively powerful Adninistratum official. Assuming that there IS such a figure (the existence of the role is a guess on my part) then this guy/girl is certainly powerful enough to authorise Warrants on behalf of the High Lords.

Warmasters during an active crusade - these guys are very powerful, having a level of power up to that of Sector Governors (depending upon the size of the crusade they are commanding) , but with better military assets, battle hardened forces and more sweeping "emergency" military powers. They would certainly have the power to recommend the issue of warrants.

Sector Governor - this is where the action is really at in my view in terms of obtaiing warrants. These guys have an interest in increasing the wealth of their own sector and of exploring local wilderness space to ascertain the existence of major threats. They will also have political allis to reward and opponents to exile: Warrants are useful for both of these reasons.

Inquisitor Lord - very senior Inquisitors would probably have the clout/authority/kudos to even order the Sector Governor around on occasion, and would be a reliable source for a Warrant of Trade at a push.

Subsector Governor - these guys are powerful, having theoretical control over maybe 10-30 worlds depending upon the Sector. I would say that these guys have the power to recommend warrants of trade, but that this would be subject to the whims of the more powerful Sector Governor. This is the lowest level at which I would say Warrants could be reliably obtained...below this level, the ability to obtain Warrants is far more precarious.

Peers of the Imperium: at this level we're talking Planetary Governors, other Rogue Traders, Astartes Chapter Masters, Inquisitors, senior Imperial Naval Admirals and the like. These guys probably don't necessarily have the immediate authority to recommend the issue of a Warrant, but they know how to get the ball rolling. It may be that a council of assembled peers has the power to recommend a warrant, depending on the powers issued to them by their own imperial charters.

A warrant is a nice reward for finding/freeing a STC.

Layton Draxby said:

I don't understand exactly why that happened. Was it something of an ingame-Event or was this scripted before the campaign started? If it was the latter it could cost them nothing, because theres a starting value of PF the group should have. Or if your group wants to start with less PF it should cost what all of you think apropriate.

The other question: If the younger brother had the RT declared dead successfully where did the RT get a profit factor? If the younger brother inherited the warrant legaly (at least for now), why did he not inherit the rest of the family-fortune as well?

from france

a in game example. Lure Of The Expanse p 26/27 Jeremiah Blitz won it in a game of chance in the palace of the lord sector. not only this but also a lunar class cruiser.

it was a lord sector and so far it s the only example of the lowest grade official

My thoughts on the matter, Hunt down the younger Traitorius soon to be very DEAD brother , reclaim the warrent from his cooling corpse and get back to the buisness of exploration and profit.

Layton Draxby said:

A letter of marque? Against who? If the Administratum is holding on to the Warrant, until it can sort everything out, then there's not actually anyone you can target to sieze it from, not in a legitimate way anyway.

What the players need to do is prove that the Rogue Trader's younger brother is a lieing thieving prick, not to mention build the influence to back it up.

Iku Rex said:

And the Warrant of Trade is the source of the a Rogue Trader dynasty's power. If you don't have one, you're basically a free trader. Which means you have have no rights to trade with anyone except for those people you can negotiate with for it, no right to leave the Imperium to go exploring in the Emperor's name, and make contact with/trade with/destroy Xenos races, and most importantly, have absolutely no authority over the various Imperial Adepta.

Remember what it says from the front of the core book, the two most important things in a Rogue Trader's life are his ship and his Warrant of Trade.

The PC Heir to the dynasty is usurped by the younger brother, whilst on his way to rightfully claim possession of the ship and warrant. The heir wasn't killed but put upon a slave mining colony where he was left for several years. The other pcs also find themselves on said colony where they all meet and eventually escape.

The Heir reports the problem to the Admistrator to find that he has been declared dead and his brother is now head of the dynasty. They have suspended the warrant pending investigation, but the Koronus Expanse is a large area.

The PC's have won a ship and are going to be working as a free trader under another friendly RT, who also has issues with the usurper.

I realise that the PC's are limited with what they are able to do whilst not having any right to do anything and will potentially end up being classed as Pirates whilst they try to reclaim the heirs rightfull ship and warrant.

Hence why I was wondering, as I know they will try to keep things legal, how much a new warrent would cost or if a letter of marque with the condition of bringing the ursurper to justice could be gained.

To answer another question they currently have 0PF. But do leagally own a ship.

I appriciate all of yours comments and feedback, it has given me alot to think about.

I think that sounds like a good concept for a game! A bit like the Count of Monte Cristo, nice one!

They don't necessarily have to buy a new warrant but two things will help them get their rightful one back sooner, killing the brother and any kids he has... though you might be hoping to turn him into a rival possibly? And get a big load of cash and discretely making sure it finds its way to the administratum official that is making the decision, not a bribe, heavens not a bribe just a token of your loyalty to the Imperium... delivered to his or her personal bank account.

Without the warrant they can still journey into the Koronus Expanse but any Rogue Trader can try and beat them up and no one will likely back them up, the other Rogue Traders have their shiny I can do what I want warrant!