Hi everyone,

Me and my current gaming group are waiting for the next DH core rulebook release#reprint since we need and extra book and maybe plan to replace our old book if they include v 3.0 errata.

Anyone noticed the current reprint just went back from On The Boat to In developpment???

weird

Nope, but I would appreciate a complet relaunch instead.

There might be a licensing issue in the works. Of note, all the old Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader forum icons are GONE! I am really hoping this is not the case, but it would not be the first time (or probably not the last time) that some legal issue caused problems for a game I enjoy. Let us all hope and pray that FFG and the 40K RPG license are on solid ground, for our addictions are strong and craveth books.

ZillaPrime said:

Interesting observation. But if it's the 40k licencing issue, why would it only concern DH, and not RT/DW? I don't even have an idea, but it's a decent reason to get anxious.

New rulebook: with all those rules upgrades in subsequent games, it's high time they've re-introduced DH.

Or, rather, released a Uni-****-versal 40k Roleplay Core Rules, as it should have been from the start!

egalor said:

If it's only affecting Dark Heresy, it might have something to do with Black Industries vs FFG, as the publisher was changed fairly early on (I think the only books that BI released were Shattered Hope, the core rulebook and the Inquisitor's Handbook). I think there's a legal requirement to get the OK from Black Industries before they do so much as correct any spelling errors or change the cover art, never mind substantive changes. Rogue Trader and Deathwatch were released after the sign-over to FFG, and so the permissions don't apply to them.

Aramithius said:

I'm fairly certain all material for all lines have to have GW approval. BI is totally out of the gaming loop. They were restructured to focus on novels and all non-miniatures gaming was licensed to FFG. Not that there is much of a difference since I believe BI is totally owned by GW (like Citadel Miniatures is).

Well, if they come out with a corrected/revised edition of the Core Rulebook, I'll definitely buy one...

I would be tickled pink by a second edition that ditched the classes like Black Crusade is doing...

Dulahan said:

Yeah, me too, I liked the classless system.

Dulahan said:

Let's wait and see how the classless system actuall plays out in Black Crusade before we scrap a perfectly workable system for an untested one, a la D&D 4th Edition. I'm sceptical that it will result in more variety of characters that the class-based system in DH. Sure, there will be an initial wave of experimentation, but I suspect that, once freed from the checks and balances built into careers, Evolution will eventually start to channel character advancement in a homoginized direction. Sure, lots of people will say that they will willingly forgo advance schemes that make their character more powerful in order to maintain a colorful theme, but I think that Survival of the Fittest will kick in at some point and, about a year after it's release, the majority of BC characters will be slavishily following one of two or three carefully minmaxed build formulas that allow for drastically less diversity that the class-based system in DH.

Naturally there's a certain risk to this, and minmaxers will rejoice. However, that is their own loss. Groups where this phenomenon does not exist (or is kept in check by GM call) will simply have a better game, with characters that may feel more like the player's own idea.

I've always preferred the "style over substance" approach (though I won't deny that I am aiming for some kind of balance!) and appreciate the opportunity for more unique character concepts where they seem appropriate. The forums as well as my own games have shown that players do come up with a lot of cool ideas that currently receive little support by the mechanics as they are written. Sure, you can already houserule a lot of stuff (especially now that starting skills and talents have received XP cost, too), but of course it's always nice if one can simply stick to the official rules.

But yes, let's wait and see how it turns out!

Dulahan said:

As has been noted in the Designer Diary pertaining to the matter, Black Crusade's system may be classless, but it isn't freeform - it defines cost of advance by alignment to one of the Chaos Gods, and consequently is tied very closely to the concepts of characters in service to the Ruinous Powers. It isn't freeform, and it really wouldn't be a good fit outside of the context it's designed for.

Hypothetically, a 'classless' system for Dark Heresy would be different to the one in Black Crusade; it would be necessarily different in structure and theme.

Hi,

I'd be very happy (and pay good money!) for a 2nd ed DH core with a more freeform system. I'd be overjoyed if it meant DH, RT and BC could be integrated without the scaling problems.

Maybe I'm just another dreamer of a 40k rpg that can incorporate any of the current and future themed corebooks together seamlessly.

No:12 said:

I'm definately for a integrated system as well. Things at the moment are pretty close to it anyway, but understandably as the later systems were producted things were tweaked and updated so it'd be great for those changes to be applied consistantly across the systems as well as balancing all the reference material so it can be easily used in any system.

However, I'm very much on the side of keeping the class based leveling. As the designer diary explained, I can understand why a classless system works for black crusade, for the other systems it's very much part of the charm of the system as well as a good way to balance what items are available to characters (the elite advance system already tempts players into min/maxing as it is without them being able to buy anything). If possible it'd be great to see the branching system from DH expanded further (so that you can have mutliples of the same class play very differently) and introduced to the other systems (although I think the deathwatch method also does a good job of showing the range of different marines).

Naviward said:

I agree that Dark Heresy needs an update to the psychic rules, but I am not in favor of ditching the career system. I would like to see more options within those careers, however. I would also be in favor of ditching the starting equipment in favor of more starting money to equip new characters with what the player wants. Also, add the Minions talent to all game systems (perhaps not Deathwatch, but chapter serfs do come to mind).

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

Ah yes, a minion/acolyte/contact system for everyone would be rather good. I think the contact system from IH definately has some of that already (although it's a little too open to abuse at the moment), but something more detailed, especially around being able to send them off on side missions would be great (although obviously you wouldn't want it overshadowing the PCs).

I know what you mean about the psychic rules, it would be great to see them all the same as well. I'm actually quite a fan of the original dark heresy system (although the wording could be a bit better) as it seems to have more character than the willpower fettered/unfettered stuff of RT and DW.I also like the way the power roll allows for different levels of powers too, so minor powers can be done with little effort but something major has more risk associated with it (but still has the chance to work without any problems). That said, I appreciate that there is a lot of different opinions about the risk/reward of psychic powers, possible more than any other aspect of the games. It'll be interesting to see what approach FFG will go with BC (although I guess an extension of the willpower system as that seems to be their preferred method at the moment).

Minions are useful anywhere. For Deathwatch, it could also be NPC Marines from your squad ("slots" not filled by player characters - for example if no-one wants to play an Apothecary), or a bunch of Scouts accompanying you.

In terms of character creation and progression, I really liked how DSA/TDE did it. Offering a very large variety of "starting packages" called professions (stuff that the character used to do before), and then simply allowing people to buy any advances anytime directly for their XP - with the idea being that said advances had to be justified either by an in-game action (such as improving the climb-skill after climbing) or by sufficient downtime between the sessions (with the more exotic skills requiring access to appropriate training). GM has the final word on stuff.

No:12 said:

I don't really think we'll be seeing a 2nd edition so soon, but maybe some day.

Naviward said:

Unlikely, as apparently FFG didn't like the branching career system (which I like as well). That's why they got rid of them for Rogue Trader (and which results in much more bland characters in my mind, at least mechanically. Obviously from a roleplaying perspective they can be as interesting as they want).

One problem of getting rid of the Dark Heresy psychic system would be the almost certain attached loss of Minor psychic powers. They are difficult to replicate in the RT/DW system and so would probably get junked, which is a shame. Many of them were nice little "tricks" that characters had that existed nowhere else.

Non-branching career paths do indeed make characters more bland. In RT, duplicate character classes are less desirable (as each represents a unique role on the ship), so arguably it's not such an issue there (though it makes spending XP dull, for me). If introduced to Dark Heresy, where games may well have more than one of a class, it would seriously limit their variation and spoil a good thing.

I'd like the psychic system tidied a little (with clarifications like the recent DW one covering what does and does not constitute an attack action), but agree it would be bad to lose minor powers. They really tide over low-level psykers, and retain their interest even at the highest levels. I also wouldn't like to see the Ascension (or RT/DW) rules applied. I prefer the riskier DH system, which really makes a (responsible) psyker think twice before chucking even minor powers about.

Whatever may or may not be included in a re-release, there is quite evidently a good market for one, if simply because our old BI books are falling apart after years of use (and dubious bindings)!

borithan said:

I agree, which is why I said "update" not "get rid of." The main thing I like about the other systems is the ability to push psychic powers. Dangling temptation in front of the players & giving them rope to hang themselves with makes for great roleplaying. It's not unlike the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars. Quicker, easier power that can cause you to fall into corruption. That's why I use the Dark Heresy psychic rules, with a house rule for pushing added in.

Lynata said:

I forgot this part. I had not thought of this, but it's perfect. My group is very small, and the party is usually bulked out with an NPC just to give them an extra body. Good stuff!

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

Might be something to think about!