Question came up about limits and cards being in play/out of play.

I have Rhaegal in play. I win a challenge he participates in and trigger his ability and have him claim a power. A couple of challenges later my opponent attacks me for a power challenge and decides to play a Game of Cyvasse to bump Rhaegal (my last standing character) back to my hand to win unopposed. Unfortunately he forgot that I still had 3 influence and 1 standing True Queen's Harbringer. So I put Rhaegal back into play, declare him as a defender and win the challenge. The question is can I trigger his ability again to claim a power? Does leaving play "reset" the limit?

I remember hearing about this in the past. I dug up a ktom post that says the following. I don't know if it applies here or not.

"Ultimately, the difficulty is that once a card leaves play, it is pretty much the same as a card that was never in play for all other purposes. There are no effects that I can think of that require you to remember the state a card was in when it left play - which is a good thing because all lasting effects are effectively "scrubbed" when a card is killed or discarded from play."

Thats all I can find. Guess we have to await a judgement. I know with feast or famine, taking the 6 gold creates a lasting effect that continues even if you change the plot. "Once per phase" might create a lasting effect that persists.

Once a card leaves play, it forgets all its current state. Otherwise contradictions and confusion will occur.

E.G.

In the above example, what if you have another copy of Rhaegal in your hand? If the state remains, how does your opponent know if it was a new Rhaegal played? What about if your shuffled your hand? Do you know which Rhaegal it was that came back to your hand? How about if it was knelt? What if the other Rhaegal had been the target of a Forever Burning (or The Dragon Strikes) or two earlier this phase?

Consider also Knight of Summerhall. What happens if I have 3 KoSH in my dead pile? Can you remember which was knelt before it went into the dead pile (Standing phase only talks about characters in play)? Which had stealth from Smuggler's Cove? Which was hit by how many Forever Burning?

Don't confuse limits with lasting effects. They are not equivalent.

Limits on non-event cards count only for those specific cards unless otherwise specified (like "limit 1 Limited Response per round" or "limit 1 per game.") This should be pretty clear when you consider non-unique cards. For example, Skinchanger: "Challenges: Skinchanger gains an icon of your choice until the end of the phase. (Limit once per phase.)" If I have two of those in play and trigger #1 to give it a military icon, does the "limit once per phase" on #1 stop me from triggering the ability on #2 to give it an intrigue icon? No. Of course not. That's because each card has its own limit that applies to it alone.

So when Rhaegal leaves play and then re-enters play, he is, for all intents and purposes, a brand new card. Card #1 triggered it's effect, incurred the limit, and then left play. Technically, Card #2 enters play (not Card #1 re-entering play), and "that" card's limit has not been incurred.

So yes, you can trigger Rhaegal's effect a second time - because it is technically not the same character.

By the way, I'm wondering why the limits on event cards are not applied the same as those on non-event cards.

As you said ktom, limits on non-event cards count only for those specific cards unless otherwise specified (like "limit 1 Limited Response per round" or "limit 1 per game.").

But for an event (such as Make an Example, which has "Limit 1 per phase"), the limit is not for this specific event card, but for any copy of that event card that I could play this phase.

Oh, I think I've found the difference.

On events, it reads "Limit 1 per phase", which is a shortcut for "You may play only ONE copy of this event per phase".

On non-event cards, it reads "Limit once per phase", meaning "You may trigger this effect only once per phase".

And my confusion is coming from the French translation, which reads "Limit once per phase" for both card types. And now I understand this translation is not correct.

Comm said: