...or am I missing something? This spell can beat the living stuff out of armoured vehicles! Yesterday, one of my psykers (4th or 5th rank) has cast this spell twice in a battle, causing 22 and 30 points of damage, literally blasting a very tough enemy to pieces.

I know that DH Psychic Powers are known to be unbalanced and all, but... to such a degree?

Seing as Precision Telekenesis doesn't do damage in and of itself, how did your player pull it off?

It can be a very powerful power, but it's situational - it depends on what's in your environment to be used. Also, the threshhold of 23 really leaves you open for some bad mojo...

Macharias the Mendicant said:

Oh dammit, sorry!

I meant Force Barrage , not Precision Telekinesis !!

Sorry!

The power generates a number of attacks depending on Willpower bonus each of which has to roll to hit and does 1d10+Willpower Bonus damage without any pen all of which are reduced by TB and AP.

So a psyker with WP bonus 50 will generate 5 attacks hit withs three of then and each will do 11 points of damage minus an average TB of 3 and and armour of 4 so doing about 4 points of damage each.

Heck by the time you get to having a power like that combat enemy's AP will probably be 5 or 6 and their TB 4 so the damage will be almost nothing.

The power is not that brilliant for other killing methods out their, get a heavy stubber and mighty shot and watch enemies fall just as fast or faster.

Our psyker has Force Barrage and it's totally useful against a bunch of weaker enemies or those with low armour. It should hardly be able to damage a heavily armoured foe. An autogun with Armour piercing rounds has a better damage dealing potential in many cases.)

it doesn't seem that powerful with WP bonus 5 but with WP bonus 6 and psy rating 4 (my psyker will have all of this soon) u have average 11.5 dmg per bolt - minimum 6 bolts (on average 3.66 hit (WP 61)) and with invocation u can get average 36 power roll (overbleed of 15 - 3 extra bolts - avg 1.83 hit) so a total of 5.49 average bolts with 11.5 dmg each =63.135 dmg each hit - say TB 3.5 and AP 4.5 (average) so you hit average of (11.5-8)*5.49=19.215 damage 1st time and a bit less every subsequent turn (invocation and force barrage can't both be used in a turn)

The vast majority of Psyker powers are so unbalanced they read like they were made for a different game. A rank 6 Psyker can do around a 100 points of damage per round - more than enough to kill most anything ... and some power combos can do in the hundreds of damage; when you're average bad arse has 25 hits and a total of 10 dmg reduction from armor and Toughness, you have to wonder why an Inquisitor would want much anything else in his retinue.

I recommend using Psy Rating rather than WP when determining most bonuses - as other gms have suggested here in the past - and even then perhaps lowering the damage of many powers to 1d5 per die. (or less)

This is really one of those occasions when you, as GM, have to step forward and say "this is broken and here is how I'm going to fix it". Just be sure to inform players before the game begins, or allow Psyker players to back out and make new characters at their current level if a mid-game class change is going to ruin the fun for them. (but, seriously, if your Psyker was getting his enjoyment in the class simply from the fact he'd be able to outgun everyone else on the board, then I don't feel too sorry for him when a power reduction is applied)

My GM and I have worked out a tweaked ruleset ourselves, though we decide where willpower and where Psy Rating is more appropriate on a per-power basis. When it came for Force Barrage, we ended up having the number of shots based on Psy Rating and Overbleed, and the damage based on willpower.

Psy Rating shouldn't be everything, but neither should willpower, and both should be relevant.

Unusualsuspect said:

That's fair enough when considered purely in regard to the system in the Dark Heresy rulebook, but when viewing things in conjunction with the Fettered/Unfettered/Push rules in Ascension, Rogue Trader or Deathwatch, scaling based on Psy Rating has much more immediate and significant mechanical impact - the choice of power level is directly responsible for the potency of the power used in such a case, which cannot be said for powers which scale based on Willpower Bonus. Willpower (in any of the 40kRP psychic systems) remains crucial by merit of being the characteristic upon which Focus Power/Psychic Tests are based, making it the "control" element (particularly if the power has additional scaling by Overbleed or Degrees of Success), while Psy Rating represents the raw power being controlled, and thus the potency of effect.

egalor said:

You are missing something.

The main key here as I see it, is you allowed the Psyker to total his damage and then apply it at the same time. Each shot should allow the target to defend with armour and toughness. Which should easily bring the damage down to a manageable level.

Remember that the other players can't combine the damage from their attacks except through use of either Dual Strike or Dual Shot. Don't let a Psyker get away with it.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I think my point would be that, well, that's kind of a weird mechanic for willpower to be used for. It's a decent balancing mechanic, don't get me wrong, I just don't like the flavor of mechanics they used. Psy Rating seems entirely to be a "training in the techniques and control of using powers", that is, the skill portion. As is, the RT mechanics only allow willpower to effect how easily you cast, but never how powerful the technique is.

I must say, though, I have been convinced that Psy Rating really aught to be able to contribute to the raw powr as well... just not the WHOLE of it, ad RT/DW does now. I guess my ideal would be to replace "Willpower Bonus" or "Psy Rating" (in Dark Heresy and RT/DW, respectively) with "1/2 (Round down) Willpower Bonus, 1/2 Psy Rating used (Round down)".

That way natural talent AND training both contribute meaningfully to a power's efficacy, in the same way they both contribute to success in manifesting the power.