Edit: Besides, playing cards out of Shadows isn't a framework action? In framework actions, the first player gets the first Response, not the next player.
I believe Shadows rules state that Responses to cards coming out of the shadows is treated like a Player Action where player Response opportunities start with the player on the left and continue until they come back to the player that initiated the effect.
Edited by BombFine. In this case though which of the two applies:
1. Both Tyrion's effect and Pyrophobia are responses to Tyrion's coming out of Shadows. Player A, having the first Response, plays Pyrophobia to bounce Tyrion.
2. Since Pyrophobia is a response to Dragonpit's effect and since Dragonpit's constant effect comes before Tyrion's response, player A plays Pyrophobia before player B plays Tyrion's response.
The effect is the same, I 'm trying to find the correct reasoning though.
Unless they reversed Damon's clarification on Son of the Mist and hand size, the Pyrophobias trigger condition is met and is playable regardless of what Tyrion's Strength becomes before Pyrophobia is played.
Did they change the Son of the Mist thing again?
Not that I am aware of MDC. When Pryophobia is triggered - even if it is after the player Triggers Tyrion's response to give him STR - the condition/restriction is true that his STR was lowered when he came into play - regardless of what it is now.
This is similar to how you can still trigger chains on a maester even after you have stood him with Inn of the Kneeling Man. He is no longer knelt, but he WAS knelt and we are still within the responses window.
The only way that Tyrion doesn't get bounced in this scenario is if there was some passive effect that increased his STR such as King's Pavilion or the Song of Summer plot (with it being Summer naturally). Because then the -STR is countered by the +STR, so his STR never was reduced.
Edited by SlothgodfatherIt's my understanding as well. As long as the trigger is met, the response can be played. The response of Pyrophobia is not at any time checking the CURRENT strength of its target. It's checking to ensure the target had its strength reduced to 2 during the same window in which it can respond.
Food for thought. How is the classic Dreadfort scenario much different?
Food for thought. How is the classic Dreadfort scenario much different?
Responses are checked at the time of initiation, BUT once a trigger has been met, it cannot be "un-met."
This is why I have always taken the Dreadfort ruling as meaning this:
As far as responses are concerned, you played a character that is both 2 str and 3 str.