Hi folks,

I posted this on BGG but didn't get any replies so thought I would try here :-)

After a one year break I managed to get a second game of TOI with my opponent Howard, we made a few minor errors with the rules but nothing too serious (though he did cover a command point with a squad and forgot to count it!)

I won with the Allies which apparently is usually the case with this scenario, though when faced with those Op fire machine guns a nervous shiver made me pause at the begining as I remembered playing the Germans in At the breaking point and getting mowed down...

We are going to play the same scenario again next week hopefully so just wanted to check a few things.

After a subsequent scan through the rules I have some questions:

Concealed squads: The rules say if you move onto a command objective or victory point etc, you are revealed, does this mean you cannot start the game with a concealed sqaud on such a space e.g. a building?
Do people play concealment as it is written? I think it would be better to make them hidden properly with just a ? counter on the board maybe with a number underneath to denote which unit is which off board, you know which units are available but at least you don't know which is which until revealed.

On a similar theme when squads are loaded on trucks and half-tracks at the beginning of the game shouldn't they be unknown to the opponent, would be more interesting with the element of suprise?

I'm assuming the error with the starting engineers means they are added to the other specialised units rather than instead of?

Thought the rules for smoke were a bit weak, should be able to throw them into the next hex really I would have thought but we'll play it as it is as the Germans have enough on their plate in this one.

Do people take out useless cards from their deck before play? (like take down the beast when there are no heavy vehicles).

Looking forward to the next game, Howard wants another crack with the Germans, I actually have a bit of an insane plan for using the Germans in this one but I'll have to wait for my chance.

Cheers,
Al

Lord Al said:

You can start a conceled squad in those hexes though I would play it so that they become immediately revealed, though I suppose a debate could be made that since it didn't "move into the objective hex" it would not be revealed.

ToI is an open hand game. What I mean by that is all things about your position in the game are known to the opponent. I could certainly see making it a little more difficult by hiding things like units (place the round # marker underneath the ? to disguise it and have the unit sit off board on the associated rectangle number bit) or hiding your strategy cards face down until played. But I'm not sure that would actually add more than additional confusion to the game. If you play with concealed squads off the board you may forget what types of units are in it and not perform actions you would want to or perform actions that you can't legally do. Similar issue with the strategy cards is that it can lead you to forget what you have in front of you and you miss playing a critical card because you didn't see it. Having to rifle through them all the time only leads to slowing down the game. So in short, I would say play it like the rules state it.

Your assumption regarding the engineer specializations for that scenario are correct.

I have my own beefs with smoke but it is what it is.

I do not take cards out of the decks. The decks are only 10 cards each, removing any cards from them messes with the odds of drawing a given card which unbalances the deck (intent of the deck system). Sometimes supply sends you boxes of chocolate bars when you requested boxes of ammo. Welcome to the front line

Thanks for the reply sloejack,

From what i have read it appears the Germans have a really hard time with this scenario so was just wondering about giving them more of an edge, concealment seems next to useless as it stands because they US don't start with any mortars or machine guns in any position to do any damage and it seems you lose concealment by doing just about anything! And as you say if you lose concealment if you start them in a building then it loses one of the few advantages they have.

I wouldn't have the cards hidden, that would be more messy and I think there is a card that lets you remove an opponents card too so not practical, but the units I think would add enough to make it worthwhile, though I see your point about illegal moves etc, especially as we have only played twice.

Could do with an official answer about the starting/concealment thing but we'll have a chat before we play and see what we think, I'm sure we'll enjoy it anyway :-)

Al