Hello all, maybe somebody around here with a better memory than I can point me in the right direction:

I cannot remember where I read vehicle stats for vehicles common to the imperial guard, such as chimeras, valkyries/vendettas and so on. Could somebody point me in the right direction (which book I must have seen it in and a page number)? I would be indebted to such a kindness.

At least, I THINK I read them somewhere. I am not finding them in the DW or RT core rulebooks, Into the Storm, or BFK books. Did ascension have vehicle stats in it? Or perhaps a pre-published adventure for one of these systems?

Thanks a bundle!

FP135

Do you mean the Dark Heresy Apocrypha : Vehicles, perhaps?

Does those vehicles have the same rules/stats as the rules as introduced in "Into the Storm"?

Near as makes no difference. The original Liber Apocrypha was published by Black Library, updated by fans, and then had its rules used in Into the Storm as far as I'm aware. They're effectively the same.

not quite that simple - there are rules differences, and a few of the stats are changed (ie. front/side/rear armour as opposed to body/wing armour) but it shouldnt be too hard to adapt between the two of them, as they have the rhino, combat bike, guncutter, aquila lander and arvus lighter in common.

Ok, I took your advice on converting the vehicles from the Apocrypha. I've done the chimera first, since it is the most straight-forward, but I still need your input to make sure I didn't fudge some of the stats too far in either direction:

(Some of the stats didn't convert over, so I had to fudge them myself. Let me know if you think I'm too far off.)

Chimera APC-
Type: Ground Vehicle
Tactical Speed: 12m
Crusing Speed: 35kmph/55kmph
Manoeuverability: 0
Size: Enormous
Armour: Front 30, Hull 20, Rear 18
Crew: 1 Driver, 2 Gunners
Carrying Capacity: 12 Soldiers with Gear

Weapons: Turret-mounted Multilaser (Facing F/L/R/B, Range 250m, Heavy Class, -/-/10, 3d10+3 E, Pen 4, Clip 100, Reload 3 Full)
Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter (Facing F, Range 120m, Heavy Class, -/-/10, 2d10 X, Pen 5, Clip 200, Reload 2 Full)
Basic Weapon Ports, 3 Each Side (3 Facing L and 3 facing R, See Special Rules.)

Special Rules:
Amphibious- +5 benefit to skill tests made for manoevering in water
Ground Vehicle- This vehicle follows all rules for ground vehicles.
Basic Weapon Ports- Passengers riding aboard the Chimera may use one of the Basic Weapon ports in the passenger area to fire one Basic ranged weapon carried by the passenger. Note that passengers may make Full Attack Actions even if the vehicle has moved.
Availability- Scarce

What do you guys think? I'm still lost on Valkyries/Vendettas, as well as the larger ground vehicles such as the Leman Russ or the Basilisk/Medusa/etc due to the scale of such vehicles, so if anybody wants to contribute, feel free!

Looks good, 2 things though.

You forgot the top hatch, or i missed that while reading. And maybe firing as normal should only be allowed when the vehicle moves at combat/tactical speed and not at flank/cruising speed (unless driving on an autobahn).

Bump Bump Bump, rattatatatata i shoot like an ork.

Plus i believe you meant once mph and once kph for cruising speed.

Basilisk (replace weapon to net a different SPG):

Type: Ground Vehicle
Tactical Speed: 12m
Crusing Speed: 25mph/40kmph (Didnt calc that, its a guess)
Manoeuverability: 0
Size: Enormous
Armour: Front 20, Hull 20, Rear 18
Crew: 1 Driver, 5 Gunners
Carrying Capacity: 6 Shells for the Earthshaker cannon

Weapons: Hull Mounted (actually top mounted, but essentially the same thing) Earthshaker cannon: Facing F, Range 15 km for standard shells, 25km using boosted shells; Heavy class, -/-/- (fires once every 30 seconds), 5d10 X, Pen 8, Blast 5 (Damage degrades by 1d10 and 1 pen every 5 metres max blast damage is 25 metres with 1d10 Pen 4), Clip 1, Reload 25 Seconds) Must be aimed using 5 Full actions, after it is ranged in, this is removed.
Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter (Facing F, Range 120m, Heavy Class, -/-/10, 2d10 X, Pen 5, Clip 200, Reload 2 Full)

Special Rules:
Ground Vehicle- This vehicle follows all rules for ground vehicles.
Availability- Rare

Must come with Ammo train to be used effectively. This is generally a Chimera without a turret, keeping the hull mounted heavy bolter, and carries 50 shells for the Earthshaker cannon. If an ammo train vehicle is hit, it explodes with 15d10 damage Pen 15 and a blast 20 If outside this range it has 8d10 Pen5 and Blast 50.

I Hope this gives some arty feeling. Dont let the ammo train explode .

How would you go about giving Land Raiders and such an availability rating? A RT has considerable power, and when buying a new ship is possible, getting a single Land Raider should be hard, but quite feasible. Id hand out near unique and be done with it. What do you guys think?

Nice job on the Bassie stats...

Since a Rhino is classified as Rare, I'd go with Near-Unique for a Land Raider as well. I might even be tempted to add additional modifiers since they are even more rare outside the Astartes (only the Inquisition uses a handful if I recall). If the players were near a world where the astartes fight and die on frequently, that might be different (i'm sure resourceful scavengers might 'acquire' a land raider if they move fast after one is damaged/destroyed... but I wouldn't deliver it to the players in "like new" condition).

Valkyries are what's giving me a real headache. There are no stats for it in the Apocrypha, so I'd have to come up with stats completely and I'm not that confident.

One thing for sure: If they "acquired" a Land Raider that way, they better give any Marines of the chapter in question a wiiiide berth from now on. Like half a sector at best. Because they will hunt down the thieves of their sacred machine, should they ever get to know it.

Lukkai said:

Not if their Blood Angels. If you drop it, it aint yours anymore

My LR problem is a forge world one. If your out in the expanse, ill never let you roll, maybe Damaris has ONE for the Governor, MAYBE (Unique out on the expanse). But if the PCs fly to the Lathes, have Peer(AdMech) it kinda feels "only" like extremely rare.

FFG should finally give us rules for the Lathes, since pretty much every RT has some reason to go there and finally aquire THAT one item/Component/whatever he really wants.

fluff wise ecept as salvage getting a land raider should be an absolute no. I forget witch land raider info block i read it in but by the decree of the empror they are to be for the astartes only (i belive the only ones used by the inquistion are deathwatch and grey knights witch are astartes so not an issue) i guess you could also add smuggled to the list of possible but either way getting caught having it by an astates whould be a bad thing.

Xerty said:

Xerty said:

There is no decree.

There was the order for Land Raidersto be used by Space Marines only for a single battle. Which stupid humanity turned into a quasi decree.

But TRUST IN GW. Theyll screw it up. There are enough cases of LRs in use by other non-Adeptus Astartes organizations.

Most importantly the Inquisition. Rogue Traders are equally powerful. So i dont see a problem having a RT aquire his set of Space Marine type weaponry etc.

The whole SM weaponry better than the rest is a pure RPG invention as well. Plus nothing stops the Adeptus Mechanicus (who produce all those nice bolters) from building up their own forces with SM type weaponry. Your Explorator wants to have a Power Armour and wants to wield real Bolters etc. ? There is nothing to stop him. The Adeptus Mechanics is an Imperial Ally, and because of that they are able to sidestep certain decrees or laws. And theyll happily rub it in on occasion. "Happily" being defined as when they think it suits them. Inferior bolters? Does not compute as a logical choice...etc. etc.

Every Vehicle should be approved of by the AdMech for STC conformation, do the Marines care? Nope, and i certainly believe it goes the other way as well. THink what would happen if certain Forge Worlds would stop training Techmarines.

Voronesh said:

#1. The Emperor said so. Then he didn't come back on it. Its a decree.

#2. 'Inferior' bolters go to the men that aren't built like a tank to wield it. There is no such thing as an 'inferior' bolter, only a lack of accessories.

Number 1. The Emperor said so. For one battle. Inferior men interpreted it incorrectly. Dont put the blame on the Emperor if a human can be blamed.

Number 2. Please do not misunderstand me. The Adeptus Mechanicus does not have puny, fleshbags as anything really. The Skitarii are second only to the Angels of Death. An Explorator Magos (the second aprt of the title actually being important) should always be built like a tank. What do you think is The flesh is weak and Machinator Array actually do represent. If the Magos decides he wants to have a bigger bolter he can **** well have one. Unless his superiors deem him unworthy of such a blessed machine. The Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy can well **** shove teir decree elsewhere. Allies not vassals is a very important sentence here.

If you are some puny little guardsman or even a puny little Imperial Noble and nothing else, sure you shouldnt touch an Astartes Bolter. Do not believe such satutes hold any sway when you hold enough power to ignore said statute (the Rogue Trader), or when you are simply not part of said jurisdiction. The Imperial Navy would never order an Adeptus Mechanicus ship into battle. They can ask. Nicely.

Mishmash of Adeptus Mechanicus and Renegade Marine sentiments here really.

Something to consider might be that (apparently? at least Lexicanum says so) the only source that ever stated Land Raiders are Astartes-exclusive has been a GW web article that does no longer exist. Was that article older or newer than the Codices that allow non-Marines to use LRs? Does the removal of said article imply a retcon in itself or did GW just want to save bandwidth and server disk space?

That said, I still like the general idea - goes to show how things go wrong in 40k, and that interpretation is a big issue in the setting. And of course, a Rogue Trader may still try to acquire such a vehicle through less legal channels either way.

Agreed about the bolters, though. In fact, it's not even an invention, it's a straight contradiction.

Now, I'm all for the logical discussion of interesting topics, but I still need help with my original topic. Does anybody want to take a crack at statting-out an Imperial Guard Valkyrie or a Vendetta?

I have a Valkyrie and a Vulture half finished, and they will most likely be completed tomorrow. I'll post the end results when I'm done.

VULTURE GUNSHIP

Type: Flyer
Tactical Speed: 22m/12 AUs
Cruising Speed: 900 kph
Manoeuvrability: +5
Structural Integrity: 30
Size: Enormous
Armour: Front 26, Side 26, Rear 25
Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Carrying Capacity: None

Weapons
1 Gunner-operated Long-barelled Heavy Bolter (Facing Front/Right/Left, Heavy, Range 180m, -/-/10, 2d10+2X, Pen 5, Clip 200, Reload Full, Tearing)
Pilot-operated Twin-linked Autocannon (Facing Front, Heavy, Range 300m, S/2/5, 4d10+5I, Pen 4, Clip 240 Reload 4 Full, Twin-linked)
Pilot-operated Twin-linked Missile Launcher (Facing Front, Heavy, Range 250m, S/-/-, Clip 20, Reload 4 Full, Twin-linked, Frag [2d10X, Pen 4, Blast 6] or Krak [3d10+10X, Pen 10, Blast 1])

Special Rules
Flyer/Skimmer
Pilot-Operated Linked Weaponry

VALKYRIE ASSAULT CARRIER
Type: Flyer
Tactical Speed: 22m/12 AUs
Cruising Speed: 900 kph
Manoeuvrability: +5
Structural Integrity: 30
Size: Enormous
Armour: Front 26, Side 26, Rear 25
Crew: Pilot, Navigator, 2 x Door Gunners
Carrying Capacity: 12

Weapons
1 Pilot-operated Multilaser (Facing Front, Heavy, Range 250m, -/-/10, 3d10+3E, Pen 4, Clip 150, Reload 3 Full)
2 Door Gunner-Operated Heavy Bolters (Facing Left or Right, Heavy, Range 120m, -/-/10, 2d10+2X, Pen 5, Clip 500, Reload Full, Tearing)

Special Rules
Flyer/Skimmer

ok just a few things while inquistors can make use of them for there personal transports that seems to be the only exception to none astartes using land raiders as for the book i pulled my statment from Imperial armour volume 2 at begining of land raider section if the book has displayed page numbers my pdf copy cuts them off but first page of land raider section. And there most certinly was a decree just because it was obvisoly saposed to be of limited duration does not make it any less a decree. and as for rogue traders having = power to an inqisitor is pure lunacy they may have simaler social standing but the nature of the power they wield is very differnt as far as i can tell the only groups that the inquistors seem to be slow to move against are astartes, High lords of tera, other inquistors of simalr power and rank. I whould also asume that they do not move against the church or the machine cult quickly or esaly either but i have seen nothing one way or the other on them. but unless protected some how are if they manage to discredit an inquistor enough to get another inquistor to intervene a rogue traders powers mean very little in the face of a determined inquistor who has the resorses to overcome the rogue traders personal resorses. keep in mind an inquistor can afford to insult or inconvence nobles and while he may have to eventual awnser for it a rogue trader sezing the resorses that are controled by lets say a local govener is going to find him self in a not so great politcal situation

1. Cool Imperial Guard piece of warmachine you have there. Thank you Sablewyvern.

2. @ Xerty, please try to use the "enter" button more often. And RTs wield as much power as Inquisitors, they just wield it in a different area: Outside the Imperium. If an RT is to lose an Inquisitor out the airlock, there is a high chance no one can prove it. Fatal Plasma explosion in Energyline 45. We are very sorry. On a more serious note, the most important currency in 40k are not thrones but rather the influence and power you wield. Successful RTs have those in spades. Winterscale can probably run rings around Inqisitors and Imperial Navy admirals. He doesnt though, unless his own powerbase is threatened.

If you are an PF 40-60 RT though, you should try to step in small steps. You cant drop enough cash or influence on someone to make them forget they ever had a God-Emperor to believe in.

Thanks! Those are pretty good stats. Aren't they also spacecraft, like arvus lighters? Or is my memory off?

FoxPhoenix135 said:

If we are talking Valkyries, your off a little.

The Spaceship carrying them has to enter low orbit to allow them to get straight into the atmosphere.

Other stuff like rocket boosters or such, might allow them to reenter a spaceship hanging low in orbit to return. (Or make up a system to your own liking)