What happens if I try to save maester wendamyr from a Flame-kissed With Stoic resolve ?
FAQ says you can't try to save a character if the terminal effect is still effective after the save. Does Stoic resolve bring Wendamyr out of the terminal effect since he's now knelt and cannot die ? More generally, how works the check to know if a save cancel the terminal effect or not ?
Stoic Resolve doesn't technically save Wendamyr, it simply prevents him from being killed while Wendamyr is kneeling.
To save a character from Flame-Kissed, the save effect has to also remove the terminal condition, either by removing the attachment or by increasing Wendamyr's strength to above 0. The Greyjoy event Risen from the Sea is an example of a save effect that also increases the strength of a character; But a single Risen from the Sea wouldn't be enough to save Wendamyr without an additional strength buff (Str 1 - Str 2 + Str 1 = 0 = death by Flame-Kissed).
I'd say making him temporarily unkillable by triggering his ability while Stoic Resolve is revealed does not count as removing the terminal condition, but I am not a 100% sure.
The point is there is a save effect AND as a consequence, he's know unkillable. The "Cannot be killed" effect results of the save effect, that's why that point is so technical...
Ser Arthur said:
Interesting situation. I would rule that since Stoic resolve prevents from dying by coincidence (i.e. terminal effect was not removed by save effect itself) you are not allowed to save. But it can be ruled otherwise I guess.
Rogue30 said:
Saturnine said:
So with that in mind, constant effects may be included in the determination of whether the character will be removed from the terminal state when the save has been executed. Wendamyr can save himself from Flame-Kissed while Stoic Resolve is out.
ktom said:
That is because Flame-Kissed specifies that it must be the only attachment on the character in order to apply it's -2STR.
Right, completely forgot about Flame-Kissed's restriction. Makes me like Risen from the Sea even more.
And interesting ruling involving Stoic Resolve. Could buy you some time to get rid of the attachment until the standing phase.
or put a rusted sword on Wendamyr...
Thanks Ktom !
Ser Arthur said:
ktom said:
Ser Arthur said:
Not going to work. Rusted Sword is an "Any Phase" ability. Wendamyr will be dead (during the player action window in which Flame Kissed is played) long before you ever get a chance to play Rusted Sword in the next player action window. If it's not a "save" Response, there is no hope at all.
I think the point was that you can use Wendamyr's ability with Stoic Resolve out to buy time, then put a Rusted Sword on him before the standing phase.
Saturnine said:
Just curious (i don't think anyone would ever do this), are you allowed to use Wendamyr's stand ability after he saves himself or no because he would re-enter a terminal state?
FATMOUSE said:
If he's not kneeling, would he die from Flame-Kissed again?
ktom said:
FATMOUSE said:
If he's not kneeling, would he die from Flame-Kissed again?
Yeah, but I guess my real question is if the standing part of Wendamyr's ability is part of his save effect or if it's a separate effect? I'm guessing it's part even though the FAQ says "then" effects are separate effects -- a "sub-effect" perhaps?
FATMOUSE said:
Essentially, because the legality of triggering the "save" effect relies on him being knelt when resolution is done, you would be barred from using the stand part of the effect. If you use it and stand him, it would have been illegal to trigger the save effect in the first place. So rather than fall into paradox, you effectively are not allowed to use the stand part of the effect in this situation - same as you would not be allowed to use the stand part if you didn't have the influence. Neither of those "cannot use the post-then part" situations stops you from triggering the main save, though.
Alright, thanks ktom.