I got a cheap copy o fthis book and I'm curious about creating my own chapter so i had a look at that part. I see there's a table I can roll on to determine the parent chapter. That table includes a significant portion devoted to chapters that aren't in the rules. I'm told I have to re roll. Is this a joke? HOw can you possibly justify this as game design?

Not a joke... This way they don't need to print new table for create your own chapter when future supplements make new parent chapters. Also, if you happen to use homebrew of a favorite chapter (for example, Salamanders), you can already use them as a parent chapter of a random created chapter.

It's so chapter creation can be in one section of one book, instead of spreading it out and essentially reprinting portions of it for each new chapter they put in any future books. I personally like it as I won't have to look through as many books, it tells me that those chapters will eventually be revealed, and that FFG had the foresight to include them in chapter creation so they wouldn't have to waste space reprinting it.

The only discrepancy I found with this table is the inclusion of the Space Wolves. Yes at a 1% chance, but canon exists that no successor chapters were created after the failed Wolf Brothers due to an instability in the geneseed. The Wolf Brothers were disbanded and no further attempts were ever sanctioned nor attempted. That ANY chance exists is just wrong unless GW is going to retcon this foundational element of the Space Wolves Chapter. Not sure what nor how much GW signed off on this facet but this is a glaring error IMO.

Korvis said:

No KNOWN successors after the Wolf Brothers. It doesn't mean that others weren't attempted and might have existed during the 10,000 years between the HH and the current 40k.

You could probably fill our world's largest library a billion times over with the information that the Imperium has lost/forgotten over the eons.

Korvis said:

GW would have signed off on all aspects of the book: there's a GW logo on the back of every FFG product set in the Imperium of Man. So it's "canon" (for whatever that much abused word is worth) that if you want, you can have a Space Wolf successor chapter.

And the idea that Space Wolf Geneseed is too unstable to be utilised is clearly illogical: the Space Wolves have been using it quite cheerfully for thousands of years. I'm not disputing this has been said in the past about their geneseed, but it really doesn't hang together. Does one flawed successor chapter prevent utilising that geneseed ever again? A number of successors from other chapters (Flame Falcons, Astral Claws etc etc) have shown signs of genetic deviation or heresy and their progenitor chapters are still tithed for geneseed.

On the contrary, the Space Wolves have shown themselves to be if anything one of the most loyal and reliable chapters; the Emperor's executioners, willing to do literally anything (including turning on fellow marines) if ordered to do so by the Emperor.

As is stated above, just because there are no known successor chapters, this doesn't mean that there aren't any successors. And I don't regard it as a "foundational element" of the chapter. I regard it as another sacred cow of the canon that can be cheerfully served up as steak...as long as it's well done.

After all remember the tagline for the Inquisitor game:- "You have been told that the Inquisition is united in its cause to rid the galaxy of any threat, from without or within...Everything you have been told is a lie!"

Lightbringer said:

The difference being perhaps that any successors would not be recruiting from Fenris. It's entirely valid that there's genetically something about the Fenrisians than makes the Canis Helix more 'manageable'. Additionally, the SW recruiting process weeds out neonates who are most vulnerable to instability via sending them for a nice long walk. Without this weeding out process it's highly feasible that the 'failure' rate of the geneseed would be so high as to make the Chapter's seed seem non-viable.

Siranui said:

Yes, I must accept that this is a possibility. It's a neat and valid explanation. But it's your explanation: it's never been offered (as far as I'm aware) as an explanation for the lack of successor chapters in any Space Wolf background.

And I should point out that the Emperor never intended the Space Wolves to be based on Fenris: Russ just ended up there when the infant Primarchs were scattered by the forces of chaos. So it seems odd that any inherent "Fenrisian" genetic traits should have the tendency (unique amongst all the founding legions, and apparently unique across the entire galaxy) of rendering the Canis Helix either manageable or usable.

I still think there's scope in the setting for Space Wolves successors. Interesting successor chapters can make you look at a founding legion in a whole new way: I never particularly liked the Raven Guard until the Charcoradon write up appeared in the Badab War series, now I'm rather fond of them!

Korvis said:

The main discrepency which I would like to see dealt with is that on page 25 in the section detailing home worlds it mentions Deathworlds but on the table on page 26 they have missed it off. I tend to just allocate 56%-65% as being Deathworld but it is a little annoying.

E

A "space wolf" successor could be a chapter of alternate or unknown origin who just happens to be of similar temperament to the Space Wolves. Convergent development and all that.

Space Wolves also are famous for free and highly independant spirit, and as some sources mention that many, many times, some renegade company went away from Greatwolf gaze to find its own way amongst stars. Most wither and die in time, but most dont mean all. So basicaly u can have dozens of Space Wolf descendants out there, just not "chapters" by proper rules. (My Space Wolf table army is just such splinter force)