After reading the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer and reading previous forum posts I decided to create a more precise rendition of the Lasgun.
The primer speaks of two modes of fire and of fully automatic fire, I'm sure this has been discussed before but here is my go at it.

Mars Pattern Mk. III Short Lasgun

Low Power
Range: 100
RoF: S/3/5
Damage: 1d10+3 E
Pen: 0
Magazine: 60 Charges
Rld: 1 Full
Special: Reliable,
Weight: 4,5 Kg

High Power
Range: 80
RoF: S/3/5
Damage: 1d10+4 E
Pen: 2
Special: Discharges 2 Charges per shot

This workhorse of the Imperial Guard usually features a melee attachement for a bayonet allowing the lasgun to be used as a spear.

For other basic weapons you can do simular things, double the Semi Automatic RoF for Full Automatic Fire and ad +1 damage and +2 pen on high power and decrease range by 20%

No. You've made it fully capable of outstripping a D'laku Hellgun, and it's already far more powerful then a regular Hellgun (at 1d10+4 Pen 3, S/3/-) by merely adding an overcharge pack. Lasguns are made weak because they're supposed to be, it's what balances the enormous magazines, rechargability (I made this word up) of ammo, almost universal Reliability, and the fact they can use an Overcharge pack and still have a nicely sized magazine. You just made the base damage code the equal of the rarer and high-power autoguns with man-stoppers.

If you want a full-auto lasgun, buy a Minerva-Aegis. Do not boost the damage unless you're using an overcharge or hotshot pack unless you increase the cost and incorporate massive power drain to balance it out vs a Hellgun, or you upset the balance of every other weapon.

It seems to me as if you're trying to make the lasgun more appealing to reflect it's ubiquitous use within the 40k universe. It is not, however, widely chosen, it's widely used because ammunition is easy to come by and can be restocked with a generator, they are cheap as sin to produce, they never break down, and they can be provided in obscene bulk to supply the guards. As an Acolyte, you are both capable and encouraged to exceed the norm of the rank and file, and get the more advanced and vastly superior weaponry available to your station.

I'm trying to make a more canon lasgun, the Hellgun in my campaign have been replaced by those in Ascension and RT (as have been Plasma weapons, Heavy Stubber etc.).
So how would you stat the Lasgun from IIUP?

I know the Lasgun is the 40k AK-47 and its pro's and con's but it is supposed to be better than the autogun and according to canon capable of full auto fire.
Also I think since IH was published and rushed with Black Libaries shutting down and by now mostly outdated, unfortunately.

Most importantly the system I added (underlined) can also be used on other excisting lasgun such as the Hellgun and the D'laku.

Erm. Well, I suppose it would look more like the Assault lasgun from Rogue Trader (bayonet lug comes standard, so you can attach your own monoknife at no cost), boost the cost of power packs by 10, and allow them to function as regular packs, Overcharge Packs, or Hot Shot packs, however the gun would consume 1, 2, or all charges, respectively. The damage code should not gain Pen, though if you were to fit it with an Overcharge pack you could grant it pen 2 or 3, but halve the charges available, and using the moderate and high power settings would cause it to lose the Reliable trait and gain Overheats.

If you're using all the better damage codes from other books, then boost the range from 60 to 80, or even 100, since it would be less unbalancing in relation to the other weapons in use. Sorry for saying no, that was a rude way of putting it and didn't take the specific context of your game into consideration.

Actually I'm hoping FFG will solve this "problem" in Only War, I just hate to see the iconic lasgun being constantly outclassed by the inferiour autogun.

I think I will down the RoF to S/3/5
The damage might sound a bit much but it is about equal to a Man Stopper Round, perhaps +1 damage and +1 pen is enough, with an additional +1/+1 for an overcharge pack though you would be burning through charges insanely quick (3 full auto bursts and your done)

1d10+3, Pen 0 (low) (1 charge per shot)
1d10+4, Pen 1 (high or overcharge) (2 charges per shot)
1d10+5, Pen 2 (high and overcharge) (4 charges per shot)

Conclusion:
The lasgun is supposed to have multiple settings which it currently doesn't
The lasgun is supposed to have a high/low setting which it currently doesn't

If you want to run an Imperial Guard Campaign the Lasgun simply isn't interesting for the players as they advance and giving them all Plasma/Melta or Grenade weapons is not the solution.

The way we made the lasgun (even) more versatile (by incorporating that power slider you mentioned) whilst trying to keep it "in check" and not render other weapons useless was to change their RoF profile to Single Shot only when used on the High energy setting, justified by the increased recoil and barrel heat (built-in limit to prevent damage to the weapon?). Kind of like the lasgun-Guardsmen in DoW who use animations for both burst fire as well as a seemingly more powerful single blast.

If you want to take a look, possibly for inspiration: http://dark-heresy.wikispaces.com/Las+Weapons

One could argue that a single point of damage isn't much of a difference, but this way we still sort of stick to the RAW by only making the High setting work like a built-in optional Overcharge pack. Because that's essentially what it should be, imo.

That is perhaps a somewhat more elegant solution, perhaps I would grant the overcharge pack a +2 Pen

I will remind folks that "better" is a rather vague term, and that there are many ways it can apply that don't involve the raw stats of the weapon.

Namely ease of maintenance, durability, weight, ammunition capacity, availability of ammunition, and a few other factors I probably missed.

I view the standard DH Lasgun as a 'PDF' lasgun which is easily manufactured on most worlds and falls into the hands of pretty much everyone in existence. I assume the Lasguns issued to the IG are of a better quality - it is unfortunate that FFG has (IMHO) not yet made a lasgun that represents what the fluff references, at least in Dark Heresy material (haven't checked RT).

Having said that, I don't think the lasgun is inherently superior to the autogun in terms of effectiveness. They are comparable weapons, and the autogun should actually be more powerful when loaded with specialized ammunition. The lasgun was chosen as the primary weapon for the IG not because of power, but because of ease of manufacture / ease of use / logistics. The lasgun has a shot that is about as powerful as a rifle round, has good range and no 'ballilstic' profile, gets a lot of shots from a single lasgun pack, is cheap to manufacture, and on top of that, can recharge ammo packs just by taping it to your helmet and walking around in the sun. If such a weapon existed today, I can guarantee that all line infantry would be using it within weeks. Special operations might continue to use 'autogun' type weapons, just because of the versatility and power, but they would probably carry a las weapon as backup.

Here's my 'Vision' of an IG Infantryman lasgun (it was very similar to the Santiago's).

Mars Pattern Lasgun

Standard Firing Mode

Range: 80m
RoF: S/3/6
Damage: 1d10+3 E
Pen: 0
Magazine: 30
Rld: 1 Full
Special: Reliable, Bayonet attachment
Weight: 4.5 Kg

High Power Firing Mode

Range: 100m
RoF: S/2/-
Damage: 1d10+4 E
Pen: 1
Special: Each shot uses 2 Charges, No longer Reliable (If modified and loses Reliable, counts as Unrealiable)

Switching from 'Standard' firing mode to 'High Power' firing mode is a half action (the delay is caused by the gun, not the switch).

I think these stats pretty accurately represent a Imperial Guard lasgun.

IMO the problem with fiddling with las weapons too much is that it makes SP weapons irrelevant. As things stand, what generally distinguishes SP weapons from las weapons is that the former have a higher ROF and the latter are Reliable. Once you drop that distinction, there is no real difference between the two, except that las weapons become much better for ammo reasons so nobody will ever use an SP weapon.

Lasguns (standard ones at least) don't really have a full auto-setting. The "full auto" described in the Primer actually has about the same rate of fire that might be achieved by pumping the trigger at semi-auto. Certainly less tiring to hold the trigger down, but it isn't exactly an impressive rate of fire. I personally would consider that rate of fire to be covered by the use of semi-auto bursts.

And I would rate the "high power" at the standard 1d10+3, and the low power at less than that (1d10?).

The Autopistol is stated to have a RoF of 60 to 150 rpm....hardly automatic...so it is a bit wrong

bogi_khaosa said:

Isn't that how it is supposed to be, barring very specialized models? Just like a boltgun is better than a lasgun, maybe a lasgun should indeed be better than a primitive "slugthrower". It's the difference between forces like the Imperial Guard and some lowly PDF or even underhive scum. And it doesn't stop there, for the SP weapon is still better than a primitive musket. Which is still better than a bow. And so on.

Just because lots of SP weapons exist this doesn't mean they have to keep their usefulness for an Acolyte under every circumstance. That AK47-lookalike will do its job until the character gets the opportunity to acquire something else. And just because a lasgun seems more useful than that AK47 doesn't mean that specific types of SP weapons such as shotguns or sniper rifles have no place at all even in later levels. It just means that the lasgun is a better allrounder than an off-the-mill hivegang warfare autogun.

Also, there's plenty of SP weapons who have the Reliable trait (the Armageddon autogun, to name one example), so this "distinction" does not exist in the first place. One true difference which can not be replicated by an SP weapon is the lasgun's versatility, of which I deem RoF and energy settings to be a part. On the other hand, the one advantage that SP weapons retain is their ability to deliver different kinds of special ammunition, all depending on which SP weapon you use (which is also their chief disadvantage - the dependence on a single specific bullet size). Plus, most SP weapons also seem to do superior raw damage, even before you add in stuff such as manstoppers or hyper density penetrators.

So, to sum it up:
Lasgun: adjustable beam strength, relative independence from established supply lines
Solid Projectile: generally more raw damage, superior specialized weapons for specific purposes

Stuff like reliability and rate of fire should really depend on the model, as there are certain trends but no absolutes. In terms of reliability, this is already reflected in the books: A Drusus Prime basic lasgun is not reliable. An Armageddon basic SP autogun is. So why no autofire lasguns as well?

borithan said:

I'm not quite sure that the rate of fire of a lasgun has ever been described - do you have a source for that? The Guardsmen in DoW certainly fired faster than 1 shot every 2 seconds, and whilst I am (now) aware that nothing outside direct GW studio material is actually binding in terms of canon, I'd be curious where that came from. I've always operated under the impression that lasguns were capable of firing pretty fast, due to not having seen anything to the contrary.

borithan said:

Why not just use the "Overcharge Pack" rules for the high power setting? Seeing that it's essentially the same thing.

The RoF according to The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, published by GW it should be fully automatic

Santiago said:

I think he meant that whilst the weapon would fire fully automatic, the actual speed at which the las shots leave the barrel would be equal to an auto- or boltgun's semi-automatic burst mode. Something I do not really agree with, but given the contradicting and fickle nature of 40k it is a viable theory simply on the basis of there being no information to the contrary.

After carefull consideration I've come to the following

Mars Pattern Mk. III Short Lasgun

Low Power
Range: 100
RoF: S/3/5
Damage: 1d10+3 E
Pen: 0
Magazine: 60 Charges
Rld: 1 Full
Special: Reliable,
Weight: 4,5 Kg

High Power
Range: 80
RoF: S/3/5
Damage: 1d10+4 E
Pen: 0
Special: Discharges 2 Charges per shot

This workhorse of the Imperial Guard usually features a melee attachement for a bayonet allowing the lasgun to be used as a spear.

Mars Pattern Las Carbine

Low Power
Range: 60
RoF: S/2/4
Damage: 1d10+2 E
Pen: 0
Magazine: 40 Charges
Rld: 1 Full
Special: Reliable, Only -10% penalty when using one handed
Weight: 3,5 Kg

High Power
Range: 50
RoF: S/2/4
Damage: 1d10+3 E
Pen: 0
Special: Discharges 2 Charges per shot

Ovecharge Pack
This special Charge Pack changes the weapons Penetration to 2, if used on high power it adds the overheat special.

Three thoughts on these stats:

• Shouldn't the range for a high energy discharge actually be longer due to smaller dispersion?
• Conversely, I would lower the speed (read: RoF) at which the gun is fired on the "high" setting simply for the purpose of replacing the range penalty. Recoil and a built-in safety to deal with the increased heat levels would serve as explanation. Alternatively, you could also do something such as having the weapon loose its Reliable quality when fired on Full Auto? Just an idea, though.
• Personally, I wouldn't use the Overcharge Pack as this brings the weapon too close to being a Hellgun. On the other hand, if you apply the Overload quality to every mode of fire, this could work, the weapon essentially being jury-rigged into a "Hellgun light" or a hybrid between the two types. After all, a Hellgun really is just a las weapon with larger energy consumption, a stronger barrel and built-in cooling systems (which the lasgun does not have).

Don't think its to close to a Hellgun since they have been changed to pen 7

On range I thought the beam may be intenser but disipates more quickly.

Santiago said:

Those are different hellguns, specifically stated to be variant models.

bogi_khaosa said:

Hm, totally forgot about the Pen 7 ones. Granted, they are (military? I still don't like these distinctions) variants, but one could argue the same for lasguns. I suppose it would be more or less natural that there is a certain range where both get fairly close to each other, considering that the Hellgun principle itself is, in essence, nothing more than a high-powered variant of the lasgun equipped with additional cooling systems.

I might steal this idea, but rather than using a Chargepack I'd describe it as a true hybrid created by performing unsanctioned modifications on a normal lasgun in the hopes of replicating the Hellgun effect. Sort of like that cheap Spitfire "sort-of-bolt" pistol that's actually more like an SP gun firing explosive ammunition.

The Pen7 hellguns are the Cadian-build, Kasrkin-used, Creed-approved hellguns with intergrated targeter, the D'laku pattern is like the Skitarii lasguns, they're the Mechanicus army, they got the technology

Lynata said:

There is at least one autofire lasgun already. Still has a lower rate of fire than most autoguns (Full Auto burst of 6).

The Imperial Guardsman's Uplifting Primer Says that the standard lasgun has a fully automatic cyclic fire rate of 220 rpm. That is about 3.5 rounds a second, achievable through semi-automatic pumping of the trigger. It would certainly be less tiring to use the fully automatic and probably more accurate (less movement bumping the gun around). However, it isn't really terribly "fully-automatic", which I would rate more at the 6 rounds a second or more.

And why not use the Overcharge Pack rules for high power? Because that is the overcharge pack. You need extra special equipment to achieve that sort of power. The standard item should not be able to achieve that level on its own (and it would also make the Overcharge pack irrelevant).

borithan said:

Huh, I must have totally missed that - thanks for pointing this out!

There seem to be quite a number of novels who point at a higher RoF or even the ability to fire a sustained beam (which is, like, the highest RoF you could possibly get) - but that said, personally I hold the Primer to be in higher regard than some novel when it comes to such information. It's too bad that there are so many contradictions throughout the non-studio canon and nothing from GW itself on the subject. On the other hand, if in doubt I guess you can always pull the old "it's a different pattern" explanation for the different interpretations everywhere...

borithan said:

Exactly - it should make the overcharge pack irrelevant, because it is my opinion that the "Overcharge" option would be integrated into the weapon already (if you go with the slider thingie from the Primer).

After all, the weapon is obviously already capable of dealing with both kinds of power (normal and overcharge), and a battery, by the very nature of the laws of physics, is able to discharge varying degrees of power. So ... huh? The only explanation for the mere existence of overcharge packs at all is that the normal charge packs in DH are some lousy, cheap semi-civilian variant incapable of dealing with IG-level currents (on that note, also compare the ammunition capacity between DH lasguns and the ones in the Primer), whereas the overcharge packs are some cheap semi-civilian solution to negate this drawback.

"Overcharged" lasguns, as per the Imperial Armour books, are not lasguns firing more powerful beams, they are lasguns turned into grenades by causing the pack to explode. There, the only power levels are the low to high settings on normal lasgun followed by the hotshot configuration for Storm Trooper rifles, which allow for even higher power levels by incorporating internal cooling systems.

The way I see it, DH overcharge packs are simply a way to provide the option of more powerful shots without actually implementing the slider. If you want a lasgun with sliders - such as the one from the Primer - then you don't need the overcharge pack. At the end of the day, it's your game, so you can choose which of the many interpretations of the background (FFG, Primer, some novel) you want to follow. Personally, I prefer the slider. Just makes more sense to me than making it a type of separate ammunition. It's not a SP rifle, after all ... and unlike bullets, energy does not need to have a single constant size per discharge.

Overcharge packs exist in fluff, they aren't used with normal lasguns though normally the sniper variants. So what I would would do is allow the slider settings but if you jam an overcharge pack in when it's set on high power it becomes Unreliable. Or just say overcharge packs aren't compatible with lasguns only with long-las. My view (from fluff at least) is that high power chews up alot of power, thus I would stat it as

Low Power
Range: 100
RoF: S/3/5
Damage: 1d10+3 E
Pen: 0
Magazine: 60 Charges
Rld: 1 Full
Special: Reliable
Weight: 4,5 Kg

High Power
Range: 100
RoF: S/3/-
Damage: 1d10+4 E
Pen: 1
Special: Consumes 4 Charges per shot

There you go, this to me upsets nothing and makes lasguns a little more juicy.

The packs they use in the books are actually Hot-shot packs... which make no more sense than overcharge packs. As Lynata said there is no obvious reason why a normal powerpack shouldn't just be able to provide higher power (it should just get used up quicker). The main limitation should be the weapon (ie can it draw a higher current, can it discharge the extra energy in a useful way, and can it do it without damaging itself and/or its user?). However, 40k seems to suggest the main limitation is in the energy storage devices, and somehow changing them change the capabilities of the weapons themselves.