So I was wondering. Untouchables seem pretty effective against daemons and the like considering the warp creatures get severe penalties inflicted upon them and basicly can't see an untouchable unless he starts poking them with a sharp object or such. However, the fact that all daemons have considerable fear ratings tend to make people fail their willpower test. This kinda renders the untouchable useless in many cases as he runs like hell at the sight of a warp spawn.

However, does the fear projected by a daemon or other warp creatures work the same on untouchables as they do on normal humans? How does a untouchable perceive an entity from the warp that has entered the material realm? I would like to hear what you peeps think about this both fluff/lore and rule wise.

I'd still have them make the fear test as the daemon is still a horrific thing to look at. However:

- Being untouchable, they are immune to daemonic presence and its WP penalty. So they have a better chance than others to pass the test.

- Should they fail the fear test, they don't gain any CP from warp shock (Radicals handbook, page 38).

Soulequilibrium said:

I do not remember daemons not being able to see untouchables, in fact they are normaly drawn to them because thier bending of the warp actually causes something akin to pain for the warp entities. GreyKnights for example cause a strange bending of the warp, which causes daemons to focus on them until they are killed.

Nimon said:

First of all, Grey Knights are all psykers. So referring to them when talking about untouchables doesn't seem helpful.

Radicals Handbook does say that an untouchable can't be detected by Psniscience, Sense Presence or similar abilities. Which doesn't fit with some of the fluff I've read, and I don't see how a psyker wouldn't at least realise that he has walked into an untouchables dampening effect.

Personally I think untouchables need a lot more fleshing out, especially the things that happen when they get near a daemon. Hopefully Daemon Hunter helps here, as untouchables do seem like something the Ordo Malleus would make use of when they can.

Bilateralrope said:

Keep in mind that Psykers are not always connected to the warp like a Jedi, that would be insane. Unless you have a crazy powerful untouchable a walk through their aura shouldn't come into play, unless needed for effect. As soon as a psyker tries to touch the warp to activate a power then they should become aware of the issues at hand, but maybe not the source.

Bilateralrope said:

GreyKnights have a unique ability to ward off corruption of the warp, simular to being untouchable, this why I brought up the compairison. It is also said that they bend the warp around them also simular to an untouchable.

Another thing to consider is that there are degrees of untouchable, the untouchable in radicals handbook is not near the level of a Culexus Temple Assassin.

Actually folks, a Psyker is constantly connected to the Warp, that's what Psyniscience is. They aren't always channelling it, or touching it, per say, but they feel the ebb and flow of the Immaterium at all times. That's why they're so dangerous, because they are always there, a hairsbreadth from oblivion, and why they need to be so powerfully minded to survive, because even when they aren't using their powers, they're always perceivable by daemons, and can always sense the Warp around them, something terrifying enough to destroy lesser men.

I quote the Core book, page 74.

"Imagine knowing there was a door to the realm of Daemons, and the slightest inattention on your behalf would see them batter it down and rip you to shreds. Now imagine that door was inside your head. that's what being a Psyker is like."

The implication, by my interpretation, is that the Warp is always there, always probing for weakness, and the connection is something the psyker has to focus on constantly to keep the Warp at bay, and Psy ratings and the various power levels reflect how wide a crack they can open without being utterly consumed.

Grey Knights achieve their resistance through hexagrammic wards tattooed literally everywhere on their body, up to and including their eyes, and they are mind-wiped to ensure that there is nothing but faith within their minds. That's where their resistance comes from, and has nothing to do with untouchables. An Untouchable should absolutely alert a Psyker to his presence should his Null area begin affecting the Psyker, I think the aforementioned rule does not mean the Psyker can't tell if something he must concentrate on at all times to ensure he doesn't get swallowed by a daemon or driven insane is there or not, because he's constantly concentrating on it. The rule, to me, simply restricts the Psyker's ability to detect an Untouchable at range. For example, the Psyker is attempting to rob a house, with an Untouchable guard just inside the hallway 15 meters away. The Psyker uses Sense Presence to make sure the room is empty, and it comes back as a success, so he's sure there are no liveforms inside the room. The guard hears a noise, and so goes to the door. When they come within 3 meters (null range of an Untouchable with WP 30) the Psyker suddenly feels blind and naked, as the warm cloak that he's grown so accustomed to after decades of constant training and practise and the invariable presence of the Warp beside him, and justifiably freaks out.

Thanks for the responses guys. I agree on the fact that they need flesh out the rules for untouchables more but oh well, I'll just stock up on willpower until then.

I would say that daemons are only fear rating 1 to a blank and 0 if they're jaded. Without the whole reality-bending anathema thing they're basically just an ugly face which falls firmly within the mundane horrors of fear rating 1. In fact, I'm not sure if a blank is capable of experiencing more than mundane horror at all

However, does the fear projected by a daemon or other warp creatures work the same on untouchables as they do on normal humans? How does a untouchable perceive an entity from the warp that has entered the material realm? I would like to hear what you peeps think about this both fluff/lore and rule wise.

Yes, it's not necessarily the warpy nature of the daemon, but the fact the daemon is in realspace that causes the fear response. It's your brain saying NOOOOOOOOPE and trying to force you to run from the thing that is essentially supposed to be your subconscious made manifest. An untouchable is still a human, they just have a painful warp signature.

It's in the material realm, it has a material form as long as the psyker isn't blind he'd be able to see it. Much like the same thing for daemons seeing them. When physically manifested they have physical perceptions of reality including sight.

untouchables can be fun and a headache for a GM. The Modules Black sepulchre, the Chaos Commandment and the Church of the Damned. Many of the bad guys are really weakened or have to be changed. Sorry Spoiler on these modules.