Hello there!

I thought that I would drop in and make a quick question regarding Dark Heresy to those with some practica experiece from it. Is it reasonably possible to use Dark Heresy to play the acolytes of a Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos, rather than the Ordo Hereticus or the Ordo Malleus? Mostly thinking if the careers, tools etc. are to geared towards fighting Chaos or can be seen from a more "generic" nature?

Hi Gurkhal,

I do not think that DH is especially geared towards Hereticus & Malleus. True, you have a full section of rules for corruption (which might have no need in a non-warpsoiled-xenos game) but you have everything you need to fight of the influence of Xenos.

Sure, the latest products (BoM and Daemonhunters, the later which is still to come) are clearly focused on the daemonic. But they have other uses. The majority of what has been found in BoM can be used against Xenos one way or another. The classes stacked up with hatred mostly have some hatred for xenos as well.

Do not feel hindered, it will work out.

Ordo Xenos gets a crap deal as far as players go, two of the base careers (Psyker & Magos) get Forbidden Lore Xenos at +0 skill level, then only at very high ranks and specific career paths. Think there may also be one, restricted elite advance which possibly gets it up to +20. But by and large, most of the material is focused very heavily on Malleus and Hereticus for some reason. At least by my reasoning, you're probably far more likely to trip over more heretics and xenos than any kind of chaos/warp problems... admittedly all 3 can be interconnected, but with the way career skill sets go, your players will be better equipped to deal chaos/warp and heresy.

That said, there is actually quite a lot of material for xeno's in terms of NPC's and monsters so you're not completely boned as a GM when it comes to ideas for your stories.

For players, you could either give them a starting package which has some generic xenos-oriented skillsets (Forbidden lores, ciphers, hatreds etc) or even construct and open bug-hunter elite career with those skillsets in it, as the chances of the original problem being un-f**ked in the near future are pretty much unlikely.

Gurkhal said:

You know, Chaos has many guises. Sometimes I have the impression Ordo Xenon is even best suited for an acolyte group and least restricted in a way. The Ordo Malleus is sort of restricted to daemonic phenomena and even the Ordo Heretricus often appears less restricted than it is in fact. The main focus of the Ordo Hereticus is monitoring the Ecclesiarchy and at times hunting for enemies within other Imperial organizations (besides even the Inquisition itself). Eisenhorn, for example, was an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor.

Most of the careers and tools are not more geared towards fighting Chaos, than towards fighting any other threat. An Assassin kills xenos as well as heretics, and an Autogun is an Autogun irrespective against whom it is used. Maybe the Sister of Battle and some of the alternative career ranks of the Cleric are more geared towards fighting Chaos as are some of the equipment of the supplements Gregorius mentioned (e.g. featuring the Holy attribute).

Anyway, many xenos use chaos and warp-sorcery all the way (e.g. Yu’vath) or are corrupted by Chaos in the first place. So, being Ordo Xenos does not mean you will never fight chaos or cannot gain Corruption Points.

I think you can play Dark Heresy very well with Ordo Xenos acolytes.

There are, however, not too many xenos races detailed in official books. Maybe just enough to go around: Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, some beasts and monsters, the Slaugth, Enslavers, a shapechanger species. Maybe you could use Rogue Trader and Deathwatch books for more aliens: Tau, more Tyranids, Rak’gol, Stryxis.

Hi MKX

MKX said:

I tihnk you're ignoring a few things, in regards to the Xenos menace.

It's more than just battling the alien menace, the Cold Trade, dealing in Xenos artifacts and technology falls under the auspices of the Ordo Xenos just as readily as a Genestealer Cult. The Imperium doesn't want people dealing in Tau weapons, and they certainly don't want Halo Devices to fall in to anyone's hands.

There's also the Slaugh (the 'worm guys') and their syndicate, as well as the Beast House, who deal in dangerous xenos animals (or what they mistakenly think are animals) for blood sports and other nefarious purposes.

And from the second Eisenhorn novel, it seems that there are covens out there that sort of worship the lifestyle of the Dark Eldar, though that is some pretty old fluff. Hell, you could have cults perpetuated by the Craftworld Eldar, since they're manipulative little buggers.

Thanks for all the good answers Its been very enlightening, and I think that an Ordo Xenos game could well work with Dark Heresy. As I'm currently playing Deathwatch and have a good imagination I figure that I can find some pretty solid ammount of enemies, or come up with terrifying xenos for my players.

Blood Pact said:

It's been a while since I read the series, but I'm pretty sure that Eisenhorn is a member of the Ordo Xenos- so there is no telling where a career with the Inquisition may lead, reguardless of Ordo...

If you do go with the Ordo Xenos, one word of advice: don't pit your players against Orks at low levels! Sure, Orks may seem like the kind of low-end threat that you would face at low levels in a D&D campaign, but even a small number of them can chew through a typical 1st-level DH party with ease. I recommend starting out your group investigating human criminals suspected of having dealings with xenos, and hold off on any major confrontations with the xenos themselves until at least 3rd level.

Or, if you really want your party to be laying waste to xeno scum from day one, you might want to start your group at Ascention level. -And that way, you can even have cross-overs with Deathwatch .

I was mostly think about humans in the start and working myself up. Maybe having them confront a single or a very few spread out Orks that they can take on one at a time, a Tau agitator and then working myself up. Might include a Space Marine as well for sheer fire power if needed.

Eisenhorn was Ordo Hereticus.

As mentioned above, an Ordo Xenos group is perfectly viable in the setting, even though not quite in the Calixis Sector limelight. Many of the usual "high presence" xenos breeds make themselves scarce in this sector, and the xenos that are active mostly fall into two categories: The Ork/Beasthouse vulgarly obvious category and the annoyingly subtle and concealed variety of the Cold Trade, <EXPUNGED> and <EXPUNGED>. There is a lovely alternate rank in Inquisitor's Handbook that any self respecting Ordo Xenos Adept would be hard pressed to justify avoiding as well as a more widely available xenos-themed one from Rogue Trader (Into the Storm). Start off with low level human (or mostly human! ) mooks, minions and agents, then move up towards the teams first pants-soiling encounter with a big bad filthy authentic xenos critter... or 5! Perhaps work in a few little missions and then move them into an expanded and updated version of Maggots in the Meat (from the GM screen)?

Malleus has the big obvious Tyrant Star to chase, along with all the horrible doomsday cults surrounding it.

Hereticus in the Calixis Sector is simply swamped with things to do, cults to investigate, heresies to reveal, miscreants to crush and a million other miriad tasks to handle before you finish drinking your recaff.

Xenos? Yeah, you are the poor misbegotten redheadded stepchildren of the Conclave, and you have a nasty, thankless job to do. No glory for the workhorse, but then maybe your many enemies might not notice your activities for long enough to get some work done! Hey, it is a big, nasty galaxy out there boys and girls! I would tell you a tiny fraction of it, but I figure you might want to sleep sometime next month. The Emperor Protects! Now lock that **** door and do NOT look out no matter what you hear, do you understand me?!

For a Xenos focused campaign you would do well to make liberal use of Rogue Trader material. Heck, if your team makes it up past 5000xp then perhaps allow players to replace dead acolytes with RT characters that fit well with the existing team structure if they desire? If the Inquisitor and Rogue Trader have a working arrangement you could turn this into an awesome crossover possibility.

Also of note: If you are agents of the Ordo Xenos and your investigations uncover a nasty heretical cult, sure you could hand the case over to a Hereticus team that is in the area... Assuming they are in the area! The Inquisition follows a fairly strict "you found it, you tell us what you found and then fix that **** right now!" protocol. If that Hereticus team can even be reached and convinced to drop what they are doing ("We have been on the trail of a rogue coven of Wytches for 3 years now, what could possibly be so important?!") they might still be a minimum of 26 days travel away... And the cult has a horrible ritual scheduled for exactly 73.4 hours from now when the two moons of this world eclipse each-other! Guess what?! It just became a Xenos mission!

Avoid most xenos threats from the Deathwatch books until about rank 6 or you WILL be replacing a missing acolyte team!

ZillaPrime said:

I wasn't sure, so I double-checked and found this:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gregor_Eisenhorn

That said, I agree with the rest of your points, ZillaPrime!

Oh, and, you might want to consider setting your Ordo Xenos campaign in the Jericho Reach (from Deathwatch ) rather than DH 's Calaxis Sector. There is unfortunately much less background detail to draw upon, but most of the "standard" xenos (Tau, Tyranids, Eldar) are rare or unknown in the Calaxis Sector. Of course, Calaxis has the Slaught, Yu'vath, and Halo Devices...

Yes, I will absolutely need a sector with alot of xenos around and stuff to get things going. A few heretics and a daemon or two could spice things up, but I need a focus on the xenos. Jericho could work pretty well but it could also turn into a bit of a problem since its so combat oriented - its a freaking warzone after all!

The "easiest" might be to either make a new sector for my game. Maybe a recently liberated sector which still harbors significent alien presence, or take Dark Heresy's sector, take away a bunch of warp-connected heresies and add xenos and pawns of aliens to it. I don't know how much it would be involved in fleshing out a decent sector but I could see the advantage of that since that would allow me to customize everything into the details to focus on the alien threat.

Scarus Sector is right next door in galactic terms (Spinaward) to Calixis, after it got wrecked in the the 13th Black Crusade the Orks moved in on the remains. It might be easy to use because there is a bit of detail on its sub-sectors where a large amount of battles happened. Ixanaid Sector is the closest though to Calixis and not developed at all, its Corward through Fenksworld in the Josian Reach Sub-Sector. Rimward is the Koronus sector, which is well developed in the Rogue Trader game and full of Xenos.

Scarus Sector sounded good although with the heavy involvement of Chaos I figure that it would be hard to focus it on the xenos. Another possibility would be to take the Scarus Sector and then re-write it so that its basically a sector recently liberated by an Imperial Crusade, but that Crusade was temporarily, or permanently as it turned out, put on hold due to the 13th Black Crusade after some centuries of fighting.

This would then leave a tenious Imperial hold on the sector and I can probably also simply make an entirely new sector and place it away in the Segmentum Ultima and involve both Tau and Tyranid Vanguard in the process. I do in fact think that doing so may be the wisest idea - if also the most laborous.

Gurkhal said:

Scarus Sector has the same shortage of Tau and Tyranids as the Calaxis Sector. So, yeah, making up your own Sector somewhere in the Ultima Segmentum (where all of the "standard" xenos could be encountered) may be your best bet. Actually, I would just concentrate on creating a single Subsector where the Acolytes are stationed- detailing a whole Sector from scratch would likely be a full-time job!

Its not too hard to do if you just start off with one detailed world and get people out of the modern jet-set mindset that they'll be running around the galaxy as easily as hopping on a transcontinental and instead get used to the fact they're slightly closer to medieval serfs, peons and ne'r do well lackeys Later on when things are moving along (around Rank4-5) and they're actually worth slightly more than the turnips and ammunition they're probably paid in, they can start running around a bit more in fantastic, expensive things like space ships.

As for xenos, its not too hard to make your own up. If you avoid the human-analogue of two arms, one head, two legs, two eyes, etc and make them weird and actually "alien" rather than a startrek guy with weird coloured skin and lumps on their head, they will actually probably at least encourage PC's to hate, fear and loathe them. Everyone kind of knows what to expect with a green guy with a great big dirty axe charging at them and after many years of roleplaying no one is really all that scared, (at least up until they get into crits) Where as no one really knows what a little floating jellyfish with an unadorned, grey metal rod pointing at them is going to do. It may be a communication device, a message for their leader, it may blast them into ash...

Though in a pinch, when all else fails, the furry ones burn bestest.

An important point to consider is that even Calixis is by no means fully-charted or explored. For every habitable world marked on the Imperial datacharts, there are 1 thousand that aren't, and they can be virtually anywhere on the map, and belong to virtually anyone. Maybe the group was in the crago-hold of a ship, making an arduous journey to (X) from (Y) when a Warp storm roils in and jettisons them, burning the flesh off of their Navigator in the process, and the ship is stuck with no means of resupplying it's food reserves. Upon planetfall on unknown planet (Z) they discover - by the Emperor! - An Eldar facility constructing a Warp Gate to get back in touch with the Craftworld. The Eldar have, over their hundred years of being stranded, even enslaved the local race of (Z-ians) to serve them.

Of course this is a simplistic skeleton I made up, but the idea is simply that literally anything could be found anywhere, because it's been thousands of years since the last real stab at galactic colonization was made and things outside of the well-worn Warp routes are stones almost invariably left unturned. Go crazy with it.

Adeptus-B: Yes, making a full sector might have been an overkill! A sub-sector with maybe a dozen worlds of human habitation or something like that. Tyranids would probably not have been a problem as I could explain that with a new Hive Fleet attacking from the galactic north-west.

MKX: I agree entirely! Humanoids can quickly be made redundant if not done and shown to be really inhuman in their thinking and actions. Starting off with them stationed on a single world is also a very good idea that I may copy. Thanks!

BangBangTequila: Good ideas! I think I shall do exactly what you described and add a whole lot of crazy xenos to make the galaxy something to fear. I like the idea of stranded Elders having set themselves up as tyrants over lesser creatures. A taste of what's to come if the Eldars will ever manage to claw themselves back, and perhaps how things were before when the Eldars did rule the galaxy.

how can you not play a xeno campain in calixes?

xeno cult. cold trade, beast trade, xeno-teck trade, xeno pirats (mostly eldar) the worm ppl, the maybe not so dead chaos following aliens that where thought dead at the end of the crusade. random orknoids. verius xeno beasts. posibal genestealers. unknow stalkers beast turns out too be licor or any number of gm made aliens or beasts!

and thats just what your supost be doing. not too talk about all the thing you find that are not xeno related but just as inportant to stop

I've been pondering about the Ordo Xenos recently, and the role it plays within the Inquisition. Here are a few thoughts (unsupported by any canon) I've had about the formal relationships between the Ordos within the Inquisition.

The Inquisition, as we all know, (but the average Imperial Citizen doesn't) is riven by internal politics. Differing philosophies and outlooks lead to factionalism and outright conflict between those of a radical and puritan persuasion.

But how would the Ordos the Inquisitor serves affect these internal politics? How would the formal Ordos the Inquisitor serves, as opposed to the informal political/philosophical outlook he holds (possibly in secret) affect not only how individual Inquisitors operate, but Inquisitorial politics as a whole?

I think a good starting point is the nature of the Sector or region the Ordos operate within. I think this will define many features of Inquisitorial politics.

Let's contrast two sectors: a sector in the Ultima Segmentum (Let's call it the Drepana Sector) and a sector in the Segmentum Solar (let's call it the Menalassid Sector).

The Drepana Sector is at the Imperium's frontier. It is full of frontier worlds, has relatively few resources, and is (in human terms) quite thinly populated. It is surrounded by Xenos pocket empires, and frequently at war with them. My interpretation is that in such an environment, one would imagine that the Ordos Drepana would be dominated by the Ordo Xenos. I would imagine a 75%/20%/5% split in Inquisitor numbers between Xenos/Hereticus/Malleus. The Ordo Xenos would be poitically the principal force in the entire Sector, and may even (as the Ordos Calixis are in the Calixis Sector) be the "power behind the throne" in Sector command, dominating non Inquisitorial politics, too. The Ordos Malleus and Hereticus would naturally have a place, perhaps even an honoured one, within the Ordos Drepana, but they would be significantly outnumbered by their colleagues. The principal intrigues and disputes within the Ordos would be over the Inquisition's approach to local xenos empires, rather than other issues.

Contrast the Menalassid Sector. It is within the Imperium's hearltand, and has a massive population, containing dozens of hive worlds. Although there are the usual Orkish threats, there are relatively few local xenos who can threaten the sector. However, the massive human population makes it a target for cultists, mutants, revolutionaries and the like. One would imagine that this place would require a large population of Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors, with a number of Malleus inquisitors backing them up. I would imagine a 75%/20%/5% split in Inquisitor numbers between Hereticus/Malleus/Xenos.

So...

This would lead me to infer that the Ordo Hereticus and their various agendas are going to dominate the politics of the Segmentum Solar, the Imperial heartland, while the Ordo Xenos will dominate frontier regions, or those abutting major Xenos empires (such as Tau space.)

I'm going to suggest (totally unsupported by canon, this is just my building what could be a house of cards built on successive assumptions) as a result that the Ordo Hereticus is the largest Ordos, with more Inquisitors than the others. I'm suggesting that the Ordo Hereticus is the Inquisitorial "mainstream" and that in the most populous, and therefore important sectors, they dominate inquisitorial politics. As such, one imagines that the default Inquisitorial representative to the High Lords of Terra would be of the Ordos Hereticus.

In contrast, the Ordo Xenos become more important on the fringes of Imperial space. However, as they are less numerous, and as such have (I argue based only on my own assumptions) less influence with the High Lords, they are less influential within Imperial politics as a whole. As such, they may be regarded by the Inquisitorial "mainstream" as cranks, mad professors and the like. They may risk becoming Cassandra-like figures, predicting doom from various Xenos threats (Tyranids, Necrons etc) and simply not being believed by an Inquisitorial mainstream suspicious of their motives.

The Ordos Malleus, I would suggest, are likely influential in regions abutting warp rifts (like the Eye of Terror) and probably have a good deal of influence among historically minded High Lords. They clearly don't lack for funding and support at the highest levels of the Imperium - just look how well resourced the Grey Knights are. However, Dan Abnett's books suggest (I go no further) that the Ordo Malleus seem to regard themselves as an internal police force within the Inquisition. I rather like this idea, and I also like the idea that the Ordo Malleus are regarded as elitist and paranoid by other Inquisitors. I also like the idea that as they regard their knowledge as being so potentially corrosive or corrupting, they are secretive and few in numbers, shadowy figures in comparison to the showier and more flamboyant Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors, or the eccentric Ordos Xenos Inquisitors.

Now this is all guesswork. I'm fully aware that a lot of people will totally refute this approach. They may argue that the Xenos/Malleus/Hereticus threat is more analagous to an Army/Navy/Airforce split, with each having equal numbers and resources.

But I prefer a more complex, nuanced approach, that allows for layers of internal intrigue over and above the simplistic radical/ puritan split. Intra-Agency politics based upon the allocation of resources is a classic of spy novels and police procedurals, and it can serve to provide neat plot points for RPG campaigns. I also rather like the idea of "stereotyping" Inquisitorial Ordos politics, not because sterotypes are helpful, but because they shine a light on how the different Ordos regard each other.

I should also point out that the "lesser" Ordos (Ordos Sicarius, Chronos et al) would probably be regarded in the same way as the Ordo Malleus, on a lesser scale. Policing the Officio Assasinorum and chronological anomalies is probably regarded as inportant, specialist work by the Inquisitor Lords, best left in the hands of those who won't try to dabble too much in wider politics.

Anyway...just a few rambling thoughts!

Lightbringer said:

If memory serves, that's pretty much outright stated in the Dark Heresy rulebook.

Does it? ****, I'd forgotten that! Oh well.

What do you think about the wider points in the post, N0_1? (I accept it may be too rambling to respond to specific points, though!)

I am interested in Inquisitorial "culture." How they interact with each other. "Inquisitor" is a skirmish combat game, and while it gets across the idea of a conflicted, intrigue ridden Inquisition (which is a great idea) I can't imagine that they generally just bust a cap in each other's asses the minute they meet. I'm interested in Inquisitorial politics and intrigue at the "official" level, if you see what I mean.

redhead222: Having gotten my hands on various Dark Heresy books I will agree that I was a bit premature in juging the Calixis Sector as lacking for Xenos. I'll add the Tyranids (vanguards and genestealers) and bunch of my own creations to make the threat of the Xenos more threatning. The reason that I did talk about the lack of Xenos was of course that I really wanted to run an Ordo Xenos game, but since these books are pretty expensive I didn't want to spend money on something that I might not get all that much from.

Ligthbringer: Your thoughts regarding the Ordos of the Inquisition sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I'll likely adapt at least some of them for my own game.

Furthermore I think that I've hammered out more or less a setting, an initial nemisis and also a series of things to investigat that should hopefully prove itself to be both varied and interesting.

Thinking it through...In some ways, the Calixis Sector could be unusual in having a fairly even split of Inquisitorial Ordos-related opponents. I talked about how frontier sectors abutting alien empires would have more Ordos Xenos Inquisitors...well Calixis is a frontier sector with a few (potential) alien empires nearby (Orks of 'undred 'undred teeth, the Slaugth, Stryxis, etc etc)...But it's also stacked full of both chaos cults and rebellious human populations.

Calixis might be one of those rare sectors where there's arguments for a 33%/33%/33% population split in Inquisitor numbers between the three Ordos. Making it an interesting place to be an Inquisitor.