Loophole Master said:
Again, rules say artillery doesn't work inside buildings, it would just hit the ceiling,
Hey sorry , could you direct me to rulebooks that says that i cannot find it....
Artillery and cover
Sure, Operation Cyclone, page 7. The highlighted "Important" box.
ok i got it
you misread it Loophole again i think
Artillery weapons (range A) can never be used inside buildings! They would hit the
ceiling before having the chance to reach an enemy!
For this reason, when you play a scenario that takes place inside a base (grey tiles),
you cannot use any weapons with range A. No wise artilleryman would ever take
such a risk.
.
All its says that you cannot use A weapons in specific scenarios....
fluff and situacion frame
-A
rtillery weapons (range A) can never be used inside buildings! They would hit the
ceiling before having the chance to reach an enemy!
ceiling before having the chance to reach an enemy!
RULE
-For this reason, when you
play a scenario
that takes
place inside a base (grey tiles),
you cannot use any weapons with range A. No wise artilleryman would ever take
such a risk.
you cannot use any weapons with range A. No wise artilleryman would ever take
such a risk.
,
So when you play scenario that take place in building (tile are white for outside , and grey for inside check scenario rules) you are not allowed to add A units to army list .
It has nothing to do with rules about
Structures
from Sealion .
Poyet said:
All its says that you cannot use A weapons in specific scenarios....
It has nothing to do with rules about
Structures
from Sealion .
Well, of course that's all it says, since at the time smaller buildings did not exist in the game. That is why when they give the example, all they can say is that you can't use A weapons in scenarios that take place inside a base. However, the overall intention of the rule is not limited by just a specific example. The rules say A weapons can't be used inside buildings, cause they would strike the ceiling. That's as true for a scenario-wide building as it is for a building that just occupies a single square. Buildings are impervious to damage in Dust. You can't destroy walls no matter what bomb you use, so why would you be able to destroy ceilings?
I certainly agree that the current rules as written don't make this whole thing set in stone and undebatable, the FAQ certainly should have dealth with this issue one way or the other. But I do think that allowing artillery to fire into buildings is a much bigger stretch of what is written than disallowing it.
Sounds to me that the wording of "no wise artilleryman would do that" in reference to "would hit the ceiling first" implies that if I was inside a building I wouldnt want to hit the ceiling and cave the building in on me as well as the foe. However, if Im not in the building and only the enemy is, then I would have no issue firing at the building from the outside, even if it meant I hit the ceiling (the roof) first. I would also rule that it would always follow indirect rules and targets would get cover (hard away from the window, soft in a window).
Thats how I would rule it. But with some of the iffy rules already in the game, it may verywell mean that in the world of Dust Tactics, buildings always trump Vrill technology!
Well, that's your house rule, since we know that officially artillery ignores any cover and all that. What I'm trying to figure out here is what the official rules are, though.
I just don't see why you think it's perfectly reasonable to cave in a ceiling with artillery, while the rules say that the walls of the same structure can't be dented if your throw a nuke at it.
Man , sure its complicated .... sometimes ppl that write rules dont read what they wrote themselves.
Still rule says about scenarios and send us to reading scenario rules.
If you realy have to it can be interpreted that if scenario contains Structures that are Buildings – Buildings are terrain features whose size is smaller than one full terrain tile - + than you are not allowed to use artillery weapon at all. (if you will argue , its Scenario take place and if there is Structure on board it take place inside as well)
btw you need to really stretch English and rules to read it the way you read them . I understand thats obvious for you but "use inside" for me means shoot from not shoot to ...And finally Indirect Shot still works even in your reding of the rules becouse it is Ability and ability is higher level rule.
The note from pg.7 has been removed from the revised rulebook. Ive only skimmed through it but I cannot find any instances of Range A weapons not being able to be used in buildings.
Yeah, I couldn't find any mention of buildings interfering with Artillery weapons in any way in the new book. But then again I couldn't find any mention of Artillery ignoring cover either. ...sigh...
So either:
- That's what they intended and now you can not only fire artillery into buildings, but also fire artillery from inside a building and use artillery weapons in those scenarios that take place entirely inside a base.
- They screwed up and failed to include the old "can't be used inside buildings" note, though it should still be heeded (like they failed to include the new info about ignoring cover). In which case our uncertainty still stands.
Loophole Master said:
Yeah, I couldn't find any mention of buildings interfering with Artillery weapons in any way in the new book. But then again I couldn't find any mention of Artillery ignoring cover either. ...sigh...
So either:
- That's what they intended and now you can not only fire artillery into buildings, but also fire artillery from inside a building and use artillery weapons in those scenarios that take place entirely inside a base.
- They screwed up and failed to include the old "can't be used inside buildings" note, though it should still be heeded (like they failed to include the new info about ignoring cover). In which case our uncertainty still stands.
Loop please it was never an issue artillery interacting with structure - that was only OC A type unit limit for specyfic scenario that was explaind in very fluffy way.
You over interpreted small box about scenarios - than you though that they make mistake about not adding it to structure rules - now when they compile all rules from expansion in one book you think that tthey mispalce it.
Its not suposed to be in new core becouse it was never a rule about artilery and structures. thats simplest explenation man
cheers
Well, that's your opinion. But if this is the definite rulebook, compiling all the rules you need from previous expansions, then do you conclude that you now can use artillery in those scenarios that take place entirely inside a base (like the whole latter half of Blue Thunder)?
Loophole Master said:
Well, that's your opinion. But if this is the definite rulebook, compiling all the rules you need from previous expansions, then do you conclude that you now can use artillery in those scenarios that take place entirely inside a base (like the whole latter half of Blue Thunder)?
No, there are scenario specific rules written in those scenarios, so Artillery remains unchanged in those scenarios. Reading the new rules, looks like we have mortars comming to
So, current rules for artillery are now the same as normal shooting but with a minimum range.
Mortars have been present sinse Operation Cyclone.
I would suggest to ask the question about wether range A weapons are allowed to fire inside structures and into structures in the news regarding the FAQ, where FFG seems to be both answering questions and also updating the FAQ (did with my question).
They updated the FAQ in response to your question? What was it?
And I don't know about the artillery restriction being scenario-specific. None of my Blue Thunder scenarios mention an artillery restriction, so if I only have the revised core set and Blue Thunder, why would I not use artillery?
I pointed out that they had made a mistake in the example by missing to reroll the two last hits when resolving a sustained laser attack with beserk. So they rewrote the example. if you look at my comment in the news you can see that i quoted the original text from the faq in page 6 and you can see the new text in the updated faq.