Unoffical FAQ (and suggested answers) thread....

By pumpkin, in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game

pumpkin said:

2. How does the Forced action on the Dol Guldur beastmaster work? When is the extra shadow card applied, and as it uses the words "After xxx attacks" (in the same way that Chieftain Ufthak has) how does the Chieftain's forced action work in comparison?

Best guess: Dol Guldor beastmaster has two shadow cards dealt to it. Ufthak gets the resource token added after he has attacked once. The actions occur at different times in the combat phase, even though they both have the same wording. It is simply poor wording on the Beastmaster card.

I would disagree with this interpretation of Ufthak. If you assume that "After" truly means "after the attack is complete", and not "when he attacks", then Dol Goldur makes no sense. The extra shadow card is likely to be worthless most of the time. Also, people have reported the Polish version of the card literally translates to "when".

Entropy42 said:

pumpkin said:

2. How does the Forced action on the Dol Guldur beastmaster work? When is the extra shadow card applied, and as it uses the words "After xxx attacks" (in the same way that Chieftain Ufthak has) how does the Chieftain's forced action work in comparison?

Best guess: Dol Guldor beastmaster has two shadow cards dealt to it. Ufthak gets the resource token added after he has attacked once. The actions occur at different times in the combat phase, even though they both have the same wording. It is simply poor wording on the Beastmaster card.

I would disagree with this interpretation of Ufthak. If you assume that "After" truly means "after the attack is complete", and not "when he attacks", then Dol Goldur makes no sense. The extra shadow card is likely to be worthless most of the time. Also, people have reported the Polish version of the card literally translates to "when".

Yes, I've just been reading that thread. I think the theory is that the Dul Guldor beastmaster should not use the word "After" at all. It should use the word "When" whereas Ufthak uses the word "After". Currently the use of "After" is different depending on the card, in effect.

Ufthak becomes really powerful if his card text is changed is it taken to mean "when". His attack strength is more powerful than that of the Nazgul.

I will add the Polish part to the FAQ though, to give the two basic options...

Pumpkin, since there seem to be so many different opinions on the subject, how about adding the placing of Legolas' battle tokens in the FAQ?

I would add another question as i stated in other thread.

Can You add OOH (from other spheres than Your heroes) cards to Your deck? The only part of instruction suggests "no" though.

Spheres of Influence
There are four different spheres of influence in The
Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, and each has its
own distinct flavor and identity. Most player cards fall
under one of these spheres, represented by a unique
icon, as well as by a unique color on its card border.
Each hero has an emphasis in one of these four spheres.
A hero’s sphere dictates the types of cards that hero
allows a player to use.

Titan said:

Pumpkin, since there seem to be so many different opinions on the subject, how about adding the placing of Legolas' battle tokens in the FAQ?

Zambo has clarified this on BoardGameGeek

I want to know what "eligible enemy target" means on the Quick Strike card. Can I attack enemies in the staging area or only ones I'm already engaged with? Can I attack other players enemies when I use this even if my character isn't RANGED? I feel like if you could only use this against enemies you were already engaged with it would have said "an enemy you are engaged with." So far I've been interpreting this card as that I can attack enemies in the staging area.

Narsil0420 said:

I want to know what "eligible enemy target" means on the Quick Strike card. Can I attack enemies in the staging area or only ones I'm already engaged with? Can I attack other players enemies when I use this even if my character isn't RANGED? I feel like if you could only use this against enemies you were already engaged with it would have said "an enemy you are engaged with." So far I've been interpreting this card as that I can attack enemies in the staging area.

I play that eligible means "If it was the Combat Phase and you could normally declare that character as an attacker against that enemy." That would mean only Dunhere can attack Enemies in Staging and Ranged characters could attack Enemies engaged with other players. Other characters would have to attack Enemies engaged with you.

pumpkin said:

Yes, I've just been reading that thread. I think the theory is that the Dul Guldor beastmaster should not use the word "After" at all. It should use the word "When" whereas Ufthak uses the word "After". Currently the use of "After" is different depending on the card, in effect.

Ufthak becomes really powerful if his card text is changed is it taken to mean "when". His attack strength is more powerful than that of the Nazgul.

I will add the Polish part to the FAQ though, to give the two basic options...

If Dul Guldor used "When" it would literally be the only card in the game that uses "Response: When..." I fail to see how you can say that one use of "After" means "When", but all the rest mean "After". I don't question that he is powerful, but it really seems like wishful interpretation to me.

Anyway, keep up the good work. This is a great resource for people in between FAQs. I maintain the unofficial FAQ for W:I, and I know how much work it can be after a release.

Also, if you are really motivated, try to follow the threads at BGG. You will be more likely to find semi-official answers there (mostly from Zambo), as FFG generally doesn't want their employees posting on their own forums (not sure why, but that's how it is) (also I don't know if that guy is even an FFG employee).

Entropy42 said:

pumpkin said:

Yes, I've just been reading that thread. I think the theory is that the Dul Guldor beastmaster should not use the word "After" at all. It should use the word "When" whereas Ufthak uses the word "After". Currently the use of "After" is different depending on the card, in effect.

Ufthak becomes really powerful if his card text is changed is it taken to mean "when". His attack strength is more powerful than that of the Nazgul.

I will add the Polish part to the FAQ though, to give the two basic options...

If Dul Guldor used "When" it would literally be the only card in the game that uses "Response: When..." I fail to see how you can say that one use of "After" means "When", but all the rest mean "After". I don't question that he is powerful, but it really seems like wishful interpretation to me.

Anyway, keep up the good work. This is a great resource for people in between FAQs. I maintain the unofficial FAQ for W:I, and I know how much work it can be after a release.

Also, if you are really motivated, try to follow the threads at BGG. You will be more likely to find semi-official answers there (mostly from Zambo), as FFG generally doesn't want their employees posting on their own forums (not sure why, but that's how it is) (also I don't know if that guy is even an FFG employee).

Cheers, yer I have just been reading some of the BGG threads after others have pointed them out. I don't think Zambo is an FFG employee, i get the impression most of their play testers aren't employees, but I'm not really sure either. I do wish he'd chip in on this thread though, aye!

He mentions that he talks to Nate about the development of the FAQ, so I'd say his "rulings" are the closest you'll find to official until the FAQ comes out. From what I've seen, he's answered almost every question that is in the FAQ here. Not sure why he only posts there, maybe he just likes that community.

Also, he says Dol Guldur and Cheiftan act is if they said "When"

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6651535#6651535

If you want a list of all his posts, this will provide it:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/browse/boardgame/0

Entropy42 said:

He mentions that he talks to Nate about the development of the FAQ, so I'd say his "rulings" are the closest you'll find to official until the FAQ comes out. From what I've seen, he's answered almost every question that is in the FAQ here. Not sure why he only posts there, maybe he just likes that community.

Also, he says Dol Guldur and Cheiftan act is if they said "When"

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6651535#6651535

If you want a list of all his posts, this will provide it:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/browse/boardgame/0

Cheers. Updated the FAQ appropriately (Still don't like the Ufthak "ruling"!!)

I was wondering if someone could confirm how shadow cards are handled for engaged enemies with a forest snare card attached. Currently, I am handling this situation by dealing a shadow card to the enemy in question, but then discarding the shadow card without any effect (effectively burning an encounter card). I'd be keen to understand what the official ruling is for this situation - not sure if this has already been addressed anywhere else?

Entropy42 said:

He mentions that he talks to Nate about the development of the FAQ, so I'd say his "rulings" are the closest you'll find to official until the FAQ comes out. From what I've seen, he's answered almost every question that is in the FAQ here. Not sure why he only posts there, maybe he just likes that community.

Also, he says Dol Guldur and Cheiftan act is if they said "When"

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6651535#6651535

If you want a list of all his posts, this will provide it:

www.boardgamegeek.com/article/browse/boardgame/0

Sorry, I'm just used to the BGG community so I haven't posted on here regarding rulings at all. I'll try to be more diligent in the future. :)

My rulings aren't official - I may be wrong on these, which is why I'm helping Nate compile stuff for the FAQ. But I am not an official representative of FFG and do not claim to have official rulings on these; I just like helping folks out when I can. :)

wookie78 said:

I was wondering if someone could confirm how shadow cards are handled for engaged enemies with a forest snare card attached. Currently, I am handling this situation by dealing a shadow card to the enemy in question, but then discarding the shadow card without any effect (effectively burning an encounter card). I'd be keen to understand what the official ruling is for this situation - not sure if this has already been addressed anywhere else?

You're handling it correctly. Engaged Enemies are dealt a Shadow card, then because of the Forest Snare it can't attack so the Shadow card is just discarded with no effect.

Sky said:

I would add another question as i stated in other thread.

Can You add OOH (from other spheres than Your heroes) cards to Your deck? The only part of instruction suggests "no" though.

Spheres of Influence
There are four different spheres of influence in The
Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, and each has its
own distinct flavor and identity. Most player cards fall
under one of these spheres, represented by a unique
icon, as well as by a unique color on its card border.
Each hero has an emphasis in one of these four spheres.
A hero’s sphere dictates the types of cards that hero
allows a player to use.

From the Tournament Deckbuilding and Customization section on page 27:

"A tournament deck must contain a minimum of 50 cards. Additionally, no more than three copies of any card, by title, can be included in a player’s deck. Within these guidelines any combination of allies, attachments, and events can be used in the player deck."

The rules don't preclude you from adding cards in from other Spheres. The question is: why would you want to have unplayable cards in your deck?

pumpkin said:

ClydeCloggie said:

You might want to add the Q on the timing of Feint to the list, as currently debated in the Gondorian Spearman + Feint thread.

Yep, just about to add it, but I'm not sure there is a concensus answer yet!

Despite what I said in that thread, i think you can't do both by the letter of the rules, due to the definition of what attack means, and when defenders are declared, but I'm not sure that was the designers intention....

Playing Feint prevents an Enemy from attacking. Since that Enemy has not attacked, the Gondorian Spearman cannot be declared as a defender against it, and thus, its ability is never triggered.

Zambo said:

The rules don't preclude you from adding cards in from other Spheres. The question is: why would you want to have unplayable cards in your deck?

Stand and Fight Spirit Recursion decks where you discard the card with Eowyn and then bring it back with Stand and Fight. That way you can play powerful non-Spirit cards using only Spirit resources. Apparently the deck does fairly well by using delay tactics until it can get allies like Beorn and Faramir out.

Of course you might already know this and asked the question to get people to figure out the answer themselves. Now those looking through the FAQ know the secret too.

All the rulings I see at the beginning of this thread look solid except for #4. It's the latter; you're able to allocate the damage as you see fit - that way, Stand Together can save a character from dying if the right defenders are chosen and damage is chosen accordingly.

hi

in the brown land they say that

after player travel place 1 travel token on it

this would be that the location cancel itself??

darkeldar70 said:

hi

in the brown land they say that

after player travel place 1 travel token on it

this would be that the location cancel itself??

First you can only Travel during the Travel Phase so the Threat Strength (a huge 5) will count against you on the turn that it is revealed. Second to Travel there needs to be no Active Location. If you already have an Active Location then you will need to finish exploring that Location first before your can Travel to the Brown Lands.

Once you do Travel there however the Forced kicks in and it is automatically explored for you and then discarded like most explored locations.

Zambo said:

Playing Feint prevents an Enemy from attacking. Since that Enemy has not attacked, the Gondorian Spearman cannot be declared as a defender against it, and thus, its ability is never triggered.

So the only time you can really play feint is the portion of the combat phase where players have a chance to play actions after shadow cards are dealt? Btw, I am just wanting to make sure and that is all. I do see the point of it and understand the ruling just want to make sure this is the only time.

Thanks for doing the work to compile these questions and keep things up to date.

Largely I think the consensus rulings fit the "does this make sense" criterion, which is good, and a sign of a well designed game.

The two that (in my opinion) fail that criterion are :

Surge has an effect outside of the quest phase? Really? The rules clearly define "Surge" in terms of what it does during the quest phase. That's more than just clarifying, that's changing the rules as written.

And, I'm probably in the minority on this one, but to me the Aragorn / Theodred interaction, and the Strength of Will / Old Forest Road interaction ruling, just doesn't sit well. "Response" in the rulebook is defined as something that is done "immediately after" the action that you are responding to. That consensus ruling seems to go against that English language meaning of "immediately after" and bend it to "sometime after in the same phase, and if there are multiple responses possible, do them in whatever order you want".

Since both of these amount to rule book changes (an override in the first case, and needing clear statement of unwritten rules in the second) it'd be good if rulings said more than just "yes" or "no" for the specific question. Rather, the rulings should gave a restatement of the definition of "surge" in the first case, how a general statement of how the timing of actions and responses in a phase are to be handled in the second case.

Zambo said:

All the rulings I see at the beginning of this thread look solid except for #4. It's the latter; you're able to allocate the damage as you see fit - that way, Stand Together can save a character from dying if the right defenders are chosen and damage is chosen accordingly.

Cheers, I'll update and add the new QnAs we've got.

Hastur360 said:

Zambo said:

Playing Feint prevents an Enemy from attacking. Since that Enemy has not attacked, the Gondorian Spearman cannot be declared as a defender against it, and thus, its ability is never triggered.

So the only time you can really play feint is the portion of the combat phase where players have a chance to play actions after shadow cards are dealt? Btw, I am just wanting to make sure and that is all. I do see the point of it and understand the ruling just want to make sure this is the only time.

Not entirely. You can play actions generally while choosing the order in which attacks are resolved. So here are a couple of other instances you can play Feint:

1. You have two Enemies you're engaged with - you resolve the first attack, then before the second attack resolves, play Feint to prevent the other Enemy from attacking.

2. You are playing with a friend. You are the first player and have one Enemy engaged with you; your friend has one as well. You resolve the Enemy's attack, then before the Enemy engaged with your friend can attack you play Feint, thus preventing it from attacking.

Darksbane said:

As for your other issues, given Driven by the Shadow's text yes you could discard Caught in a Web with it. Also see this thread on Board Game Geek, Zambo IIRC playtested the game and confirms. I do agree a FAQ entry will be nice but I fully expect it to not consider encounter cards to be under the control of the player whose character it is on.

Wait, I said in that thread that you cannot discard Caught in a Web with Driven by the Shadow's shadow effect!