dj2.0 said:

I know, it's silly. But in effect the FAQ says:

"(1.22) "When Revealed" Effects

A card is only considered to be revealed if the card or game effect causing the card to enter play specifically uses a form of the word "reveal"."

Now... the Setup Instructions of the Dol Goldur Quest (since the Question is for that specific Quest) does NOT contain the word "Reveal" it simply says "Attach"... hence, according to the FAQ, no "When Revealed Effect" can be triggered.

Me personally? I think this kind of thing is crap... they probably meant to say "reveal and attach" but thought they could save some space on the card by cutting it short. Then when the FAQ came out it all went sideways... now we end up with silly stuff like this.

/wolf

agreed, that seems to be the silliness involved.

Q57's fine in this thread. You can argue, that Dol Guldur 1A states to attach 1 guard to each objective. And only attaching means not triggering then "when revealed" effects.

Or you can argue otherwise, that the guarded keywords are in effect, as usual. (Like you pointed out.)

You have to decide for one option, and regardless how you decide, some rule or game text seems broken ;-) After a rules question, FFG/Nate French, the game designer, decided for the first option, no "when revealed". I don't know the logic behind it, and hope it will be reasoned well in the next official FAQ, but meanwhile I play according to it. Here's the source on BGG.

Ah, GhostWolf has been fester than me, but perhaps the link is of interest to you.

dj2.0 said:

Yeah. My group still play it like we did originally...i.e. The "When Revealed Effects" are triggered.

Most of the time it doesn't do much, since a lot of the cards in there raise threat until end of current phase or damages characters comitted to the quest etc. But some DO have an effect. Like "King Spider", "Caught in a Web", "Iron Shackles" etc.

I guess you can't call it Cheating if it makes your game harder, right?

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

GhostWolf69 said:

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/708411/no-for-dol-guldur-but-yes-for-eleanor

I instead bet that for DolGuldur setup they really want to say only "attach" without triggering the "reveal" effect.

We have 3 objective in the staging area, each one of them will raise threat if claimed, and we should even have to suffer three when reaveled effect on the first turn with no attachment, no allies, low reaources to spend?

Sportacus said:

I'm just telling you what I think and how I play it. I don't mean to convince anyone that "my way" is the "true official way". Absolutely not.

If you want to take the official sissy way out and play nice with all the bad bad cards in there because you think they are so mean to your nice little heroes. By all means go ahead.

Me? I say BRING IT ON!

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

Neither I.

I just tried to think why Nate French said to don't use the "reveal" effect on Dol Guldur.

And I thought that the simpliest answer was that he (or they) designed the quest in that way: no reavel on Dol Guldur.

GhostWolf69 said:

Since the nature of the game, which ins't PvP, I believe that we must play it the way it enjoys us the most, even if this should mean to twaek some rules or ignore some official FAQs.

But I'll always have the pleasure to discover how I should I've played it :-)

That means the "guarded" keyword is not resolved in this case? Because the objective cards would have two encounter cards attached otherwise.

HilariousPete said:

I see the logic behind it very clear. If you play solo and you get a nasty "when revealed" resolved in the set up, you can basicaly start over. I do not think that is a good way.

And as others said, if the guarded were to resolve in this case, you would have ended up with two encounters attached - also absurd. The guarded resolves when it enters the staging area from the encounter deck, which is not this case.

lleimmoen said:

It's not? You're kidding right? During Set-up, I would say that any card that you place in the Staging Area has to be said to "enters the staging area from the encounter deck" what other definition could there possibly be? They are not "revealed" that's for sure, but enters staging area from Encounter deck? Surely they must be.

But I do agree that the notion of having TWO cards attached to each Objective is a little absurd, even though the rules clearly states that it is possible to end up like that. I still think this is a clear case of trying to correct one error by making another.

Just change the Quest card to say "Place the Objective cards in the staging area and resolve their Guarded Effect as usual". There. Fixed it.

/wolf

I agree with GhostWolf69. We already discuss this issue on french board and that was our conclusion. The text on the quest card seems to be a reminder for the guarded keyword.

Keep in mind that was the first time the objectif cards and the guarded keyword were introduced in the game.

Xylan said:

Thank you! I'm getting support from the French corner.... maybe I should be worried...

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

So you say you would resolve the "when revealed", what would that fix? A good chance of getting Caught in a Web, King Spider or Eyes of the Forest, to think of few. Meaning, in solo play, you start with 1 character and the other in the Web, or just 1 character ready, or without event cards... I think that fixes not for the best.

And I assume guarded does not trigger during the set up, that is why they put the phrase about attaching encounter cards, it is the only explanation I can think of now.

I agree with one thing, it is hard to imagine where the cards are coming from if not the encounter deck...

GhostWolf69 said:

I would argue that setup is setup. You are placing these cards in the staging area for setup. They are not "entering the staging area from the encounter deck". They are being placed there as part of setup. You haven't even started the game yet.

Svenn said:

It is nice when someone else justifies what one said. I think this makes sense, what more, it explains why things are the way they are in the case of set up of Dol Guldur quest.

Svenn said:

Oh really?

"(1.19) Card Effects during Setup
"When Revealed" effects are resolved if the cards are revealed during setup. A player can trigger responses during setup, following the normal game rules. Players cannot take Actions during setup."

So according to you, the game has not started yet... and we can still play cards, exhaust Eovyn etc. ? Is that it?

I repeat. The simplest way is to just admit the Quest card is wrong, place the Objectives in the Staging Area and execute the Guarded Keyword as per the normal rules. Any other solution just ends up having to justify stupid exceptions for regular rules. Where as my proposed solution doesn't have ANY flaws, other than the game being slightly more difficult, something I personally can live with.

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

We can play cards during set up? I guess those that are responses and cost 0. Exhaust Éowyn? You mean Eleanor.

You are trying hard to make your words sound right. And others' stupid. In fact there is no evidence the cards are entering the staging are from the encounter deck during the set up. Or say if there is. And your simple versions may not be the simplest either, simple is to do what is intended. In this case, attach a card to each objective without resolving "when revealed". Is there anything difficult about that now?

Moreso there is no other guarded objective being used for set up, so there is no consistency problem either.

lleimmoen said:

Ah, yes of course. Sorry.

Eleanors ability is a Response so, yes that can be triggered during Set Up as well.

/wolf

Why isn't this stickied? It should be listed at the top of the forum... just saying...

and bumping it to the first page... AGAIN - WHERE IS THE STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bumping the thread - could do with a sticky?

I have to agree with Ghostwolf. I think the when revealed effects are triggered because it says on p24 of the rules "The guarded keyword is a reminder in some objective cards to reveal and attach the next card of the encounter deck to the objective when it enters the staging area from the encounter deck..." the guard has a when revealed effect it gets resolved. I know this can make the game harder but the challenge is what makes it fun.

silverhand77 said:

Jolly good.

However, the FAQ entry will stay because it is based on a response from Nate on BGG.

I sort of hope it does change when the offiical FAQ comes out, but for now the unoffiical FAQ won't be changing.

I'm sure we will all continue playing the way that makes most sense to us though, Nate's way, or the wrong way...

silverhand77 said:

Try your fun then. Because by this logic you will start with SIX encounter cards in the staging area, if you follow the rules still.

I have tried it, its very challenging, but it can be done You get even more cards if any of the guards have surge.