I've been looking at all the silver twilight lodge cards at cardgamedb and I have this feeling that they totally suck. I've browsed through the deluxe expansion and some cards from the newest set and I found literally 4-6 *good* cards from this weird faction. I can't see any good way to integrate them with other factions. Why should I make a lodge / X split deck if every other faction will simply outperform them in every possible way.

What are your opinions? I really want to like them and get a 4th human faction but as hard as I try I can't find any reason to spend money on them. Please tell me I'm not blind/stupid and that I'm not the only person that has this opinion.

STL bounce into your hand and control Characters are the tech that combos well with evasion strategies.

All it takes is 5-6 quality cards that sync well with the deck strategy to make a faction viable to mix in.

STL Bounce > SY Exhaust

Could you give me some examples of how other factions can synergise with silver twilight cards? A few really good combos that would speak for including this faction in a split deck.

Really? Build a deck, try it out, make adjustments. Or wait until you show up for a regional and get trounced by a deck you don't understand.

No offense intended, but you've got to be willing to put some work in.

Actually, I've been wondering about the same thing. Sure would be nice to have some examples and discussion instead of being told to wait and go lose at a Regional event.

Thank goodness I generally see better treatment of "newbs" in the AGoT sections.

I've seen ST works pretty well with Misk. The discard effects work well with Misk's ability to draw cards. Similarly Yog's ability to yank stuff out of the discard can work well with ST'd discard stuff.

The other side of ST, the effects of characters entering and leaving play, works well with factions that can allow that sort of tom-foolery. Such as Shub.

I don't have any deck lists on me unfortunately, but those are some of the basic ideas.

ST works very good with Yog.

You get bounce +sarifice/destroy effect. plus some terror with investigation.

From ST I used Finchtons, high wizards, Knights od the void to return the previous 2 to hand, plus enforcer. Also unbound, ST unique buidling (don't remember the exact name right now), from Yog Calling down the ancients, a single glimpse, skull totem, resurrection, gathering at the stones, journey to the other side. And Yog himself - there's a lot of spells in this deck. Also servants from out of time (terror icons, + in this deck you can return cards from discard to your hand), messengers from beyond, and laboring gugs if I recall properly (combat boost). And doppelgangers of course.

From new ST cards I think dr Baker would be a good addiction to the deck.

The problm with ST is that's a new faction, so they don't have many cards to choose from.

At this moment I say you can't make a reliable mono-ST deck. You have to splash another faction, try with yog

Come on Kennon, that isn't newbie hate, that is asking players to actually play the game. People will come on and give out combos, most of which won't appear all that impressive to someone who hasn't used them or faced them. On the off chance that someone does give out a combo that is recognized as awesome or a deck that is awesome, then someone will just end up copying it verbatim. Then what we have is a replica of what started driving down Invasion in my scene. People netdecking and taking something for gospel because someone they have never met said this was the best deck, or that was the worst deck. It becomes an echo chamber of self-fulfilling prophecies.

I personally find the "prove to me this doesn't suck" style of posting tiresome and pretentious and refuse to play. If he had come on and said he didn't understand ST and how they worked he would have gotten the same kind of help, but from at least one more person. I'm old and crotchety. Turn your music down and stay off my lawn.

I here by declare myself the Staglrod of Cthulhu!

Yep, it sucks. However:

Tokhuah said:

High wizard, jeffrey farrington, you know too much, lodge housekeeper, ritual of summoning are very good cards. Lodge barkeep had to be syndicate.The rest sucks. I made a rush bounce sacrifice St/yog/cthul that cruched all my opponents in january.

Sure, a copycat deck only expands the game by adding more players. But if chess and poker can survive with a gazillion books on strategy, so should we. Keep your tricks up your sleeve for tournaments. Then, when the cream has risen to the top, the secret's out. Deck building and combos are a personal matter first. Then the good ones become part of our history. At the highest level, it's the pristine game play and the rare "super / broken / brilliantly conceived" combo that takes home the cake. Legitimate question. Legitimate debate. And the smack down was mitigated by good self awareness. Still, welcome new player. AGOT is like at the peak of the universe right now with the tv series and new release forthcoming. They can afford to be nicer. Conversely, fighting Ancient Ones should make one at least a little cranky. And the cultist name speaks for itself.

Here are some basic tools to start your mad scientist deck building laboratory:

Start with the bounce and lockdown Silver Twilight Characters including the the one that is steadfast Syndicate. Add all the great lockdown and control Syndicate Event and Support cards and sprinkle in their debuff and control Characters. If you are going to use Panic and Triggerman then include no more that 18 Silver Twilight cards. Everything in the deck should cost 3 or less except for the ST Wizard (4).

I'm pushing things further off topic on this thread, so I'll be brief, but for an example of the sorts of things that I like to see: Look here, for answers posted today to a person asking if they can actually make a playable Martell deck in AGoT.

Of course, I'm also on lunch break, so I have to be brief on that account as well, but I'll try to come up with some further thoughts or questions to try to spur some conversation later this evening. For the moment though, are people having much luck with keeping options in their hand? So many of Silver Twilight's effects bleed cards from your hand, or so much better when you have zero cards in hand, that I wonder more about how this plays out. In most games that I've played, having cards (thus, options) in your hand is by far the better option. Has it been worth it to anyone to keep your hand empty for these effects, or do you feel that it's limited your overall gameplay too much?

*Edit* Also, I did want to say that I realize there is some help and advice being posted. I don't want anyone that is helping to discuss to feel disparaged, so thank you all.

This is a congenial group that is willing to share ideas for the most part. I think that with Regionals on the horizon and Silver Twilight being new, and potentially having some game breaking combos, some have a reluctance to share what they think will bring home championship.

If the question had been about how to make a reasonable deck with the starter set, I don't think there would have been any awkward silences or the like because it would not have any chance of impacting the results of Regionals.

Similarly, if a question is asked like "I was thinking of using a combo with card A and card B, what do y'all think?" I believe it would have received a pleasant response indicating the pros and cons of the idea.

I don't think Silver Twilight Lodge are bad at all, they're just gonna need some support from another faction. They have some really good cards that get toned down because you discard to fuel them. Some of those cards can really be a homerun if you hold them and build up a decent size hand. Of course, the problem is the time it takes to do this, and your telegraphing that your up to something. So, I think they're pretty balanced, and look fun to play.

I actually just got finished looking through that expansion, after leaving it aside for a while, and as i went through the cards I thought "wow theres some nasty gems here! I can't say the CCG was more cutthroat then the LCG anymore!".

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=40&efcid=4&efidt=479183

Ephraim said:

That has been my impression and the reason why I haven't invested in any of the new APs or STL deluxe expansion. I use mono-faction decks and if STL doesn't have enough cards to be competitive in that format, I'd rather stick to my current seven. Not that they are equally balanced, but at least there are options for swapping cards here and there, with STL having so few cards (in comparison), might not be able to put in only good cards.

Dam said:

I hope people didn't get the impression I thought STL is bad alone. They have some decent killing power, and some cards are beastly. When I said "...need some support" I was thinking alone the lines of other factions helping STL mechanics, not filling in a gap. If they are supported by other factions to increase draws, or get stuff back from the discard pile, they become a lot more powerful.

I haven't honestly messed with them much either, but they seem to be a fun change. I think they're gonna be my next deck build.

I only play mono faction decks (and I have a not-so-good mono STL deck), but I really think that STL can be combined successfully with other factions. Some things I thought about are:

1) Steal the Soul is very good, especially in the beginning. This, Dr. Baker and a Silver Lance should be useful in any deck. A nice combo is made up with Errand Boy, Disgruntled Chef and Arcane Hunter - the EB gives you "fast" cheaply and the added thread of readying a Disgruntled Chef or Arcane Hunter, feeding their response/forced response or just pumping up several Disgruntled Chefs. These cards could go in any deck.

2) Ritual of the Construct and Crescent Blade should go well with any deck that can successfully drive opponent characters insane, like Hastur.

Ritual of the Construct can be exhausted, choosing X to be 0, and since insane characters are considered to have a cost of 0, you can force your opponent to sacrifice an insane character. And the only thing you have to do for it is exhaust one card.

A character with a Crescent Blade can be exhausted to wound a neutral character and since insane characters are considered to be neutral, you can take out any insane characters easily. Throw in an Old Sea Dog who can turn characters neutral and you can even kill most characters that are in play.

3) The same cards as above combined with Things in the Ground (Yog-Sothoth) and Arkham Asylum. TitG brings a lot of characters into play insane, and while the asylum turns your loonies into contributers, the ritual and the blade send your opponents crackpots to the graveyard before they can do anything useful.

4) Disgruntled Chef and Arcane Hunter should go very well with Agency - kill a character with Shotgun Blast, Small Price to Pay or Flanking Maneuvre and pump your commited characters up with additional combat icons, willpower and fast. Crescent Blade and Old Sea Dog could be good there, too, because The Agency can get the blade back out of the graveyard if it gets sent there.

Also, Ritual of Summoning can turn generic 1- and 2-cost mooks into big ol' Ancient Ones regardless of faction (but not before you use Ritual of the Lance to blast everyone else into oblivion, of course).