Where to start?

By Liverpuncher, in Rogue Trader

I recently purchased Dark Heresy & Rogue Trader -- and know very little about the rich history behind the Warhammer 40k mythos. I know there are many novels, and various other items about the universe -- but I haven't found anything that gives a good overview. Can anyone offer a required reading list?

Thanks!

An excellent introduction and an easy read is the novel Fifteen Hours . It is told from the perspective of a commoner who joins the Imperial Guard and is sent into combat. The fate of the common ground pounder is contrasted well against the lofty heights of the Rogue Trader in a novel called Rogue Star .

For Dark Heresy background there are numerous books to read but the background material in the DH core sourcebook is sufficient. Compare it to the same background material in the Rogue Trader core source book.

Baby steps.

I started with Dark Heresy core rulebook, then Rogue Trader core rulebook (read thoroughly), and then do further research on interesting sections or parts through the web. Lexicanum and Wikia are the ones I often use.

I highly recommend you read the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Ravenor trilogy of books, both by Dan Abnett and published by Black Library. They follow an Inquisitor and his acolytes through trials and tribulations, and in the second trilogy the rise of one of his acolytes to Inquisitor himself.

There's some coverage on starship travel in there and a few Rogue traders, so it works for RT as well as DH.

I just read a compendium book called "Enforcer", which details the life of a 40k policewoman called Calpurnia. Or more like a police captain, but anyhow, It is a great description of a variety of imperial institutions: The Adeptus Arbites (police), The Ministorum (The Church), The Imperial Navy and the life in an Astropathic relay station. There is even some detail on Rogue traders, and how they relate to the imperium (not too well).

Can be a bit heavy at times, but it reads like a crime novel. Loved it =) Is relatively true to the spirit of 40k.

Some of the older books you might find do not conform to "canon", for example some of the Eisenhorn books have some "errors" that make them seem like regular science-fiction. But this is merely the product of many writers forming a consensus as they go, take the elements that you like and ignore the ones that don't seem to fit. The whole 40k universe is a work in progress, and that makes it dynamic and more alive =)

Ah, yes, the Shira Calpurnia novels. Those were quite good, as I recall. Calpurnia's one of the Arbites on a hive world, and that is quite the thankless job in the 40K universe. happy.gif

I'll second the recommendation. Start with Calpurnia and Eisenhorn, and you can't go far wrong.

Cheers,

- V.

Shira Calpurnia novels are excellent to help you build background knowledge. They go in great depths on the different imperial organisations and in one of the books also have a great deal on how rogue traders fit in to the world.

If you want a good "primer" you could do worse than start with the Warhammer 40,000 Table Top (TT) game core rulebook. It gives a good overview of each major faction within the setting. The individual "Codex" books for each faction then build on this with more background.

There are many many books out there now, so it depends how much depth you want! happy.gif

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Imperium_%28Anthology%29

This anthology includes a lot of short stories covering almost every aspect of the Imperium. You get to read about the Marines, the Guard, Commissars, Titans, Sororitas and even the Imperial Navy. The latter in particular (the short story is called "Ancient History") should be useful for Rogue Trader games, as it provides a good insight in how those big ships are run. :)

I, too, recommend the big books and codices that have already been mentioned, but if you want to get a quick glimpse into the setting and a feel on things, these short stories are probably the most convenient way, or at least a good basis (in addition to the introductions and descriptions in the various RPG books).

Kasatka said:

I highly recommend you read the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Ravenor trilogy of books, both by Dan Abnett and published by Black Library. They follow an Inquisitor and his acolytes through trials and tribulations, and in the second trilogy the rise of one of his acolytes to Inquisitor himself.

There's some coverage on starship travel in there and a few Rogue traders, so it works for RT as well as DH.

Though it should be noted, as some people cite it as something they don't like about DH, that your characters don't start out among their master's 'inner circle' of minions like the acolytes in Eisenhorn and Ravenor do, and have to work their way up from the lowest rungs of the organization.

Thank you kindly for the numerous suggestions. I appreciate the recommendations and thoughtful comments. The Warhammer 40k mythos seems vast -- and complex. I need all the help I can get -- not only understanding the various human factions -- but also how the various alien races relate to one another too. But as the first poster suggested, I'll take baby steps!



Thanks again

I always recommend Ciaphas Cain , HERO OF THE IMPERIUM in threads like this.

Liverpuncher said:

I need all the help I can get -- not only understanding the various human factions -- but also how the various alien races relate to one another too.

This seems appropriate: www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/05

Oh dont forget the novel "Execution Hour", it has a wonderful descritption of how a naval warship is run, you get a great feeling on how it must be to be a master of a ship in 40k.

Iku Rex said:

I always recommend Ciaphas Cain , HERO OF THE IMPERIUM in threads like this.

Ouch! I can see the Cain books being recommended to everyone who likes "less serious" books, but not for getting an understanding of how the setting works. The Cain novels have been written as a satire , and as such contain quite a lot of warped ideas on 40k, at places strongly contradicting the source material.

I recommend "The Name of the Rose". Movie, book, take your pick.

It's not 40K, but you'll have a hard time finding anything that illustrates the atmosphere better.

Nearyn said:

I recommend "The Name of the Rose". Movie, book, take your pick.

It's not 40K, but you'll have a hard time finding anything that illustrates the atmosphere better.

Blade Runner

Dune

Alien/Aliens

I wont start a competetion.

All of the movies you mentioned are great for inspiration for the setting.

Lynata said:

Iku Rex said:

I always recommend Ciaphas Cain , HERO OF THE IMPERIUM in threads like this.

Ouch! I can see the Cain books being recommended to everyone who likes "less serious" books, but not for getting an understanding of how the setting works. The Cain novels have been written as a satire , and as such contain quite a lot of warped ideas on 40k, at places strongly contradicting the source material.

They're often funny, but not satire as such IMO. Ciaphas Cain is perfect for understanding the 40K setting. It is supposed to have a hint of tongue-in-cheek to it.

How do the Ciaphas Cain books contradict the source material?

Edit: As for movies, http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=123&efcid=3&efidt=318050&efpag=0

Iku Rex said:

How do the Ciaphas Cain books contradict the source material?

Going by what GW had established for the setting, Scholae Progenium are strictly gender-separated, so several things described in the books could not have happened (unless you allow Mitchell to retcon the setting). I also have a distinct problem with the depiction of supposedly chaste, self-deprivating Battle Sisters as drunken sluts who play cards for fun (and it's a veteran responsible for training the next generation of her kin, no less!).

That's just the few things that I know of, though. I have not read these books in their entirety, but given that they are often used by people as an excuse for Adepta Sororitas being perfectly free to jump into bed with whomever they want (despite countless descriptions to the contrary) I have naturally taken some sort of "defensive interest" in the subject. And it is for this very reason that I cannot stress enough why these books are not suitable to give an adequate impression of the setting. We have enough sexist jokes about Bolter ******* etc in the real world, there's really no need to drag a certain cliché into the setting as well - at least not on a level as primitive as that (imo, Swallow did a much better job about embedding this factor in a way that it actually seems to fit perfectly into the background and the minds of ordinary Imperial citizens - rather than Mitchell's "brute force de-mystification" turning veteran Sororitas into loose girls you might get to play strip poker with).

No idea what other crazy ideas Mitchell has included in these books - but as I said before, I do not think they are even intended to be taken seriously.

Additionally, anything written from a character's own perspective is invariably "tainted" by being based on the respective character's perception instead of the narrator's (hopefully) more impartial view - if not an outright lie. In fact, did not even subsequent books of the very same series debunked much of what Cain stated in "his" novels as crap as they had that Inquisitor analyze his writings?

We also can't just go and say the Uplifting Primer is an accurate representation of how dangerous Tyranids really are, after all. Though this does not prevent me from recommending it as a perfect resource for knowledge on the Guard, one simply cannot take everything in it at face value. It's all about context.

Sorry if this comes off a bit as a rant - I guess what I'm trying to express is that novels really can be "hit or miss" when it comes to describing the setting. This is not necessarily negative as long as you don't place too much emphasis on them as a resource, after all, GW itself said that Black Library's purpose is simply "to tell a good story". The Cain books are certainly not the only ones I deem "questionable" in terms of being close to the setting (*cough*Goto*cough*multilasers*cough*), just as much as there are a lot of novels who I think are very close to the studio material. It all depends on the author's interpretation, i.e. what they read "between the lines" and how much they feel they can deviate from it in order to get that aforementioned "good story".

Lynata said:

Iku Rex said:

How do the Ciaphas Cain books contradict the source material?

Going by what GW had established for the setting, Scholae Progenium are strictly gender-separated, so several things described in the books could not have happened (unless you allow Mitchell to retcon the setting). I also have a distinct problem with the depiction of supposedly chaste, self-deprivating Battle Sisters as drunken sluts who play cards for fun (and it's a veteran responsible for training the next generation of her kin, no less!).

That's the best you can do?

I've never seen anything about the Schola Progenium being universally gender-separated. The Imperium controls a million+ worlds. If there is a "contradiction" - for which you offered no source - all that means is that not every local Schola (out of no doubt many thousands) has the same rules, or at least don't enforce the rules the same.

As for the Battle Sisters, one novel has a minor Sister character who drinks, plays cards and has sex (she is not a "drunken ****"). First of all, this is completely realistic and sensible even if every single Sororitas-order has strict laws forbidding such behavior. Anyone who thinks the 40K setting should be devoid of corruption and vice has clearly missed the point by several parsecs. Second, the Cain novels are 40K canon. They are "source material". A knowledgeable character (Inquisitor Amberly Vail) says that celibacy is not technically mandatory in the Adepta Sororitas, so unless you have a better source, that's the reality of the setting.

Lynata said:

In fact, did not even subsequent books of the very same series debunked much of what Cain stated in "his" novels as crap as they had that Inquisitor analyze his writings?

No. The books are presented as having been collected and cleaned up by Inquisitor Amberly Vail after Cain's death. She has indeed analyzed his writings, and includes a gazillion footnotes and some added writings on areas Cain doesn't bother to talk about. Vail occasionally points out a minor mistake (Cain is writing from memory), and she knows Cain is (by his own frequent admission) a habitual liar, but IIRC she never questions the overall truthfulness of his autobiography. In fact, she's a close friend of Cain's and took part in several of his adventures. If he was lying about those she'd know. You may be thinking of Cain's official biography, published by the Imperium. That is indeed full of crap according to Cain.

Anyway even if Cain (or Vail) is an unreliable narrator the books are still a good introduction to the 40K universe, just like well researched and well written historical fiction can be a good way to learn about a historical period.

Put 3 people in a room and you have 9 different opinions.

Variations in philosophy, degrees of conformity and general attitude towards aspects of ones life.

The Imperium of man is a vast conformity machine, trying to grind the same behavioral pattern into anyone in the universe. The same faith, the same values, the same morality, the same behavior and the same obedience. It is true that is does so with great efficiency and very thoroughly, but no matter how oppressive a system of zealous, self-righteous conformity is being preached and beaten into the people of the Imperium, there are just as many interpretations of the Ius Ecclesiasticum and Dictates Imperialis as there are people who have read it.

For every planet, things are done a bit differently, that is the wonderful thing about 40K. If it was a million identical planets, with a million, billion identical people then it would not be fun. It is the differences from planet to planet that makes the setting worth exploring and playing in. The little differences in politics that simply goes by from day to day, until some inquisitor picks it up, and decides to level a hive city to teach the responsible party a lesson in adherence to the rules.

I have not read the Cain novels, but I will put in my 2 cents anyway.

I can easily imagine the sisters of battle being the moral equivalent of female space-marines. I can easily imagine that they enforce many of the same rules and live by a set of higher values, as preached to these young girls since childhood, and further impressed on them when they join an order.

However the Adepta Sororitas has just that. Orders. Different orders with different viewpoints, different leadership, but the same overall adherence to some core values. There could easily be a group of sororitas who simply don't take certain vows the other orders take for granted, but instead take some completely different vows the other orders have never heard of.

And in every order there are sisters who pick one specialty over the other. battle sisters, diplomats and physicians. I've heard of a novel in which one of these physicians are given the chance to shoot a daemon/cultist/ihavebadmemory in the face for doing something horrendous to a fellow sister, but she can't make herself do it, despite her oath to root out evil and corruption in any shape and form. Why? Because of her hippocratic oath. Her personal convictions took priority over the core rules that they are all supposed to adhere to.

Also, the Imperium is gigantic. I'll bet you anything that for every 1000 steelhearted, pious and pure bolter-sister out there, there is at least one who does x-rated stuff with her equipment while the lights are out, that would make any AdMech snap.

For every 100 steelhearted, pious and pure bolter-sister out there, you'll probably find at least 1 who regularly entertains thoughts of vice, but don't admit to it, and don't indulge in self mutilation to cleanse herself.

And sure... somewhere out there, you'll probably find some front-liner sisters, who have not been cozily sitting in a monastery, practicing their rites, preparing themselves to be the fighting arm of the ecclesiarchy, but have in fact been station on some rocky-ass world, constantly under threat from every possible angle. And the sisters in this shrine are either:

a) screaming, raving fanatics to an extend that would make their fellow sisters blush with embarrassment at their would-be-fanaticism (by comparison)

b) silent recluses, who kills anything of an unfamiliar colour with a 1000-yard stare in their eyes.

or c) a vice-ridden, but ultimately still faithful servant of the emperor, who tosses down amasec like it's water, plays strip poker, and takes a guardsman for the ride of his life every now and again, because that is the way she copes with her life.

This post is waaaay too long by now, so I'll just sign off and hope I have somehow difused a situation here. If not...shucks...

Iku Rex said:

I've never seen anything about the Schola Progenium being universally gender-separated.

It's in the SoB Codex though.

"The lifestyle of the teachers and pupils is strict and puritan. During the Age of Apostasy, most of the Schola Progenium was corrupted and rife with slavery and depravity. Orphans were used as slave labour in factories and mines making goods for the Ecclesiarchy. Particularly promising individuals were sold to Imperial commanders as slaves and servants, and the most attractive became concubines for Imperial Nobles. The most physically adept were sent to be trained as Frateris Templars or Brides of the Emperor, swelling Vandire's armies with the best recruits. The habitats themselves became associated with licentious practices, and their money was put to questionable ends. In direct contrast, each habitat now maintains a strict separation between the two genders and contact between them is restricted purely to religious ceremonies. Only with this purity can the Progena hope to be elevated to a position within the Emperor's domain."

I do think the above quote contrasts starkly with Mitchell's interpretation. He simply didn't read up on it. Which is somewhat understandable, given that this is just one (and in the scope of the book very minor) detail in a sea of background information. It nonetheless created a contradiction, though.

Iku Rex said:

First of all, this is completely realistic and sensible even if every single Sororitas-order has strict laws forbidding such behavior. Anyone who thinks the 40K setting should be devoid of corruption and vice has clearly missed the point by several parsecs.

Oh, there is corruption - but it is much more subtle and dangerous than Veteran Sisters suddenly falling out of line where everyone can see it without fearing retribution from her superiors. There's a reason for why they are so zealous and why you have so few Sisters turning to Chaos.

Iku Rex said:

Second, the Cain novels are 40K canon. They are "source material". A knowledgeable character (Inquisitor Amberly Vail) says that celibacy is not technically mandatory in the Adepta Sororitas, so unless you have a better source, that's the reality of the setting.

They are as much "canon" as Goto's Marines sticking their multilasers on a Carnifex. Neither the novels nor even these RPG books are definite source material. The only source material is what comes from the studio, everything else is, in the end, the interpretation of the individual author, and at times it simply clashes with another author or even GW's idea of the setting. You can adopt it for yourself, but that doesn't make it more binding.

"In further conversation, George emphasized that Black Library’s main objective was to “tell good stories”. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40k worlds differently, so does each author. In essence, each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds. After pressing him further, he explained that only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that is HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work."
- from an interview with George Mann, Head of GW Publishing ( GW Annual General Meeting '08 )

"Black Library releases work from a host of different people, each with their own perceptions and preferences. Because of the sheer amount of material released, conflicts arise between what seem like established facts."
- Aaron Dembski-Bowden, author of the Horus Heresy (from his blog )

"The same applies to transference from Black Library back into the gaming supplements. If the developers and other creative folks believe a contribution by an author fits the bill and has an appeal to the audience, why not fold it back into the ‘game’ world – such as Gaunt’s Ghosts or characters from the Gotrek and Felix series. On the other hand, if an author has a bit of a wobbly moment, there’s no pressure to feel that it has to be accepted into the worldview promulgated by the codexes and army books."
- Gav Thorpe, Games Workshop (from his blog )

Similarly, according to post #5 in this thread (apparently those guys got an answer out of the officials who were present at the DW playtest), even these RPG books are not considered canon for 40k at large but "only" within themselves. 40k canon simply isn't as "solid" as a lot of people seem to believe - and I, too, was part of this group until I began researching the issue in light of some pretty glaring contradictions, which turned up what I have quoted above. And I can live with it, for it saves us a lot of debate - this way we at least have a justification for ignoring whatever we strongly feel is not a correct representation of the setting.

Iku Rex said:

Anyway even if Cain (or Vail) is an unreliable narrator the books are still a good introduction to the 40K universe, just like well researched and well written historical fiction can be a good way to learn about a historical period.

Well, in the aforementioned details at least it was obviously not well researched, but I cannot talk for the rest of the book(s). Generally, I would deem an impartial source always as more reliable than a character writing from his or her point of view or memory. And given that we are talking about a fantasy setting, authors do have the power to simply say how things are instead of "blurring" our view via such lenses.

As I said, this is not to diminish the book's value as a light-hearted reading, merely as a reliable resource of background information.

Nearyn: Given the Imperium's strong aspect of decentralization that would be a valid point, but again we have studio material telling us that the Sororitas remain one of the few exceptions, based on every single Order being able to trace its roots back to the Temple of San Leor, and Sisters frequently transferring between the individual Orders, resulting in a far more uniform regimen than it could exist amongst the Guard or the Astartes. The Sororitas as a whole have a huge set of rules that are similar for everyone - individual Orders may merely add a few things to them, but never remove. This is according to Andy Hoare.

Naturally, there is still room for corruption, I just do not agree that it would look as "natural" as in the Cain books, essentially making that Sister look like any ordinary human being from our modern world - this is a "flaw" I often see authors applying to Space Marine characters as well in order to make them appear more charismatic or relate-able for readers, not to mention that Scholae have extremely high requirements for their personnel (given that they train the next generation of the Imperium's elite). Furthermore, I do not agree that "not required to be celibate" is in any way compatible with Sisters leading "a life of self-deprivation". One pretty much excludes the other.

If you want a true corrupted Sororitas, I recommend reading Dan Abnett's "Invitation". ;)

Blood Pact said:

Kasatka said:

I highly recommend you read the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Ravenor trilogy of books, both by Dan Abnett and published by Black Library. They follow an Inquisitor and his acolytes through trials and tribulations, and in the second trilogy the rise of one of his acolytes to Inquisitor himself.

There's some coverage on starship travel in there and a few Rogue traders, so it works for RT as well as DH.

Though it should be noted, as some people cite it as something they don't like about DH, that your characters don't start out among their master's 'inner circle' of minions like the acolytes in Eisenhorn and Ravenor do, and have to work their way up from the lowest rungs of the organization.

Depends on how your Inquisitor views his acolytes, but yes i'll concede that point.

Kasatka said:

Blood Pact said:

Though it should be noted, as some people cite it as something they don't like about DH, that your characters don't start out among their master's 'inner circle' of minions like the acolytes in Eisenhorn and Ravenor do, and have to work their way up from the lowest rungs of the organization.

Depends on how your Inquisitor views his acolytes, but yes i'll concede that point.

Well, for beginners in the universe, that's actually way better than starting as inner-core agents. It gives them time to actually learn about the background as their characters grow in knowledge and skill. Plus let's not forget, that DH characters start as "level 1", so to speak. And you'll not find a level 1 D&D character for example being one of the main counsellors of the High-King, for example.

If you really want to play the core group of an Inquisitor, you can do so by creating Ascension characters. Or you could give your players a good amount of XP at the start already (say 5'000 to 6'000 instead of the usual 400) and some additonal gear, to create a group of trusted acolytes. But I'd only advise experienced players with vast knowledge of the background to do so. Anyone else will quite honestly not be up to the job yet.