Hello

This came up in our last session, was wondering if someone could kindly help me out!

After the "Surprise phase" of a combat, once combat rounds begin, can you attempt ambushes (ie., Surprise), again - via Silent Move Tests vs. Awareness? If this is allowed, does this "new surprise" reset the Initiative order again (all surprised/ambushers roll Initiative again)?

Thanks!

L

If I remember corectly you can not conceal or silentmove once enemy already noticed you. So you can't hide when enemy is watching you or fighting with you.

Unless, of course, you broke line of sight. I would put a few rounds worth of 'cool-down' between opposed checks to try and get the player to run away in order to break combat.

Simply put, I would consider that combat negates Conceal/Silent move checks, but breaking away from combat can allow them.

Actually, you're both right, as well as wrong. If you get the drop on someone, and you make a ranged attack (or I suppose a melee attack under certain conditions-fog, extreme darkness, what have you) while surprised and concealed, you could make an opposed test of Concealment vs the target's Awareness. If you win, he didn't see where the shot came from, and you retain the element of surprise, though now any targets facing you would at least be able to take a reaction.

Technically that's not surprise any more, since the others could take actions, but for every in game effect with the exception (at GM's discretion) of no longer being Unaware targets (you behave very differently when under fire then not, regardless of source, though reacting as though the shot came from the opposite direction could warrant the same modifier).

This is tickling my head, I could swear there is some trait or talent that allows you to hide in plain sight, but I can't recall which book it's in or what it's called.

What if the situation was that new combatants were sneaking around (using Silent Move - & succeeding - in the Vs Test) to surprise the other combatants, already engaged with their allies?

L

BangBangTequila said:

I agree, I'm doing these same in my games cause it's logical. Except that there is a rule in IH that "whenever you attack enemy when succesfully hidden you automatically reveal your presence. You can attempt a Concealment test as a half action to duck back under cover but the opponents get +20 to the awareness test " These rules are for sniping in Concealment expanded skill description. If you have silencer it gives the opponent -20 modifier to this awarness test. I would allow my players to hide after the surprise round behind a cover and silent move to some other place if the line of sight is impaired somehow, if there are for example any obstacles where players can move and not beeing seen by enemies

New combatants can surprise enemies. You check awarness v. concealment or silent move as normally but I would give -10, or -20 if pinned to the awarness tests, because it's more difficult during fight to look for something else and not concetrating on fire.

We play it that Characters that lost sight of an attacker (because he broke line of sight ans then succeded in a concealment test ) get no reaction vs his attack.

Normally this kind of action takes time but with the right equipment that lets you vanish from plain sight it can be just a half action and thus can be done instead of taking aim.

Vindicare's Stealth Suit allows you to Conceal even in plain sight; same goes for Stalker Kroot from ITS. Maybe Cameleoline could allow you the same trick but on longer ranges.

Maybe cause vindicare suit is made like cameleoline. In darkness you should be totally invisible with vindicare suit

"We play it that Characters that lost sight of an attacker (because he broke line of sight ans then succeded in a concealment test ) get no reaction vs his attack".

We do that too, cuase in dodge description stays that you can dodge if you were aware of the attack, so if someone has a place to hide and move unnoticed behind somebodys back , he can attack and opponent gets no reaction cause he isnt' aware of the attack.

I'd assume that if during combat a situation arises which would be considered Surprise otherwise, the surprised party would go on with their normal actions, but be incapable of using them in ways that obviously react to the surprise. They could for example still fire at their enemies that didn't go into hiding, but during the second "surprise round" they couldn't shoot their new enemies or run away due to suddenly being outnumbered.

I'd keep the established Initiative order. under the conditions you are describing, sure, i'd say go for it. it's no different then popping a sniper on your party once they've been flushed out by mooks.

LETE said:

Cifer said:

Agreed; this is one of the whole points of setting up flanking actions and sniper nests in the real world.