Since every Strategy card appears to have its own unique advantage, I was wondering what everybody thought of an optional rule that used all 16 Strategy cards. I imagine it could work as follows:

• The original eight cards (with black backdrop) are layed out in a row as usual minus the original Imperial card, which is replaced by the Imperial II card; then the SE alternates (with white backdrop) are layed out in a row below those.
• All the Option 2 setup rules apply, except play is still to 10 victory points.
• The Age of Empire option is NOT used.
• The Speaker decides which set of eight cards are to be drawn from for that round-- the top eight or the bottom eight. Everyone else must pick from the same set of eight. When bonus counters are added, they apply to the number, not the card. For example, a Bonus counter on Diplomacy would be picked up when a player chooses Diplomacy or Diplomacy II .
• The "Special" aspect of bonus counters on the Bureaucracy card applies to both #8 Strategy cards ( Imperial II and Bureaucracy ).
• Whenever the speaker token changes hands, a new objective card is turned over immediately.

Well I don't see any obvious problems with the idea. Try it out and let us know how it plays!

Hugesinker said:

Overall it seems like a good variant. The only thing I can see is the last part. If you flip a new objective every time speaker changes hands the game will end sooner. If you have objectives flipping over when people use bureaucracy and when speaker moves, that is 2 objectives per round. Unless you compensate and add more objectives to the deck. This would have a side effect of more options for people to qualify for and might be easier to actually qualify for at least one.

DavidG55311 said:

Yeah, that may be the case. I haven't been able to play test it yet. It is possible for no Objective card to be turned over if the Speaker does not change, so I was hoping that the likelyhood of two Objective cards being turned over would kind of offset that. It would depend on the frequency with which either happens, though players could game it slightly to lengthen or shorten the game.

Upon further reflection, I think each of the original set of Strategy cards (even with Imperial II) is usually slightly better for the person using the primary ability of the card. I think I'd like to try the following for this variant (now incorporating some of the Shard Strategy cards)

• The original eight cards (with black backdrop) are layed out in a row as usual-- minus the original Imperial card, which is replaced by the Imperial II card; minus the original Trade card, which is replaced by the new Trade III card.
• Then the SE alternates (with white backdrop) are layed out in a row below those-- minus Assembly, which is replaced by the Assembly II card.
• All the SE Option 2 setup rules apply, except play is still to 10 victory points (not 9).
• The Age of Empire option is NOT used.
• Players may select from the white-backed set of strategy cards for free as normal. However, as an option, by paying a cost of one command counter from their strategy allocation area, they may roll a d10 and get the corresponding card number from the black-backed set. If a 9 or 0 is rolled, the counter is still paid but the player must select from the white-backed set instead.
• Only one strategy card of each number can be taken during a round. If a number is rolled corresponding to a card number that has already been selected, re-roll.
• The "Special" aspect of bonus counters on the Bureaucracy card applies to both #8 Strategy cards (Imperial II and Bureaucracy).
• The "pay mercinaries" aspect of the Trade III card applies to both #5 Strategy cards (Trade II and Trade III).
• Bonus counters apply to the number, not the card. When Imperial II is picked up, it still accumulates a bonus counter for next time.
  

Lately my group has been throwing in extra strategy cards for some interesting effects.

We first did it when there were 5 players and we wanted to have 2 strategy cards each because we loath having 3 unselected in 5 player games.

What we do is use the 8 strategy cards from shattered empires and then randomly select from the original set.

Imperial and Initiative are not included in this selection as they would put an extra speaker movement and extra objectives per round into the game.

So depending on how many cards we need we randomly select the extras.

When a race has an ability relating to a specific strategy card and there are two of them present, that race only gets the benefit from one of them.

For example, Jol-Nar can only activate the primary of one of the techs using the secondary.

The other must be activated as normal.

You can choose which one you want to use your racial ability on, however.

The Xxcha has an interesting choice to make on theirs.

We have used this variant for 2 strategy cards each in a 5 player game and then for 3 strategy cards each for a 3 player game.

DavidG55311 said:

Wow, so you can have two tech phases and two diplomacy phases in a single round? That's got to make for some bizarre games.

Modified these rules again to try to make things more interesting and get rid of the random element, if anyone has an opinion on this optional rule, I'd like to read it, Thanks!

[ Option ] Using 16 Strategy Cards (v2)

Since there are some fairly significant differences between the optional sets of eight strategy cards, I feel a little like I'm missing out on something with so many going unused. So, I wanted to figure out a way to throw a full double-set into one game-- Cards with the white-background from the SE Expansion and cards with the black-background from the base game (using some of each from SotT). Each of the original black-backed set, even with Imperial II, is usually better for the person using the primary ability of the card in comparison to the white-backed set, so these black-backed cards shouldn't be as easy to select as the SE alternates. I wanted to create a method that would allow these stronger cards to be picked, but less frequently and with some method built in for players to prevent others from easily getting these cards. Here is the variant I came up with:

Setup:

• The original eight black-backed cards are displayed, ordered in a row as usual-- minus the original Imperial card, which is replaced by the Imperial II card; minus the original Trade card, which is replaced by the new Trade III card.
• Then the eight white-backed SE alternates are displayed in a row below those-- minus Assembly, which is replaced by the new Assembly II card.
• All the SE Option 2 setup rules apply, except play is still to 10 victory points (not 9).

How it would work:

• The Age of Empire option is NOT used.
• During the Strategy Phase, each player, starting with the speaker and going clockwise as normal, may do one of three things:

1. Collect a white-backed strategy card that is currently paired, of their choice. If there is a command counter on that card, it gets bumped.
2. Place a command counter from your strategy allocation area on top of any white-backed strategy card in the common play area. If there is already a command counter on that card, the old one gets bumped.
3. Collect any strategy card that is currently paired and has your command counter on it, along with the counter. Place the command counter back into your strategy allocation area.

• "Paired" simply means that both cards of the same number are in the common play area. A strategy card can only be taken if it is currently paired. Only one strategy card of each number can be taken during a round.
• When a command counter on a white-backed card gets "bumped", it moves to the black-backed card of the same number if it is still in the common play area, otherwise it goes back to its owner's reinforcement area. If the black-backed card is present and already has a command counter on it, the older one gets bumped off and goes back to its owner's reinforcement area.
• After this selection goes around the table once, any player who chose 'option 2' above, starting with the speaker and going clockwise, must now take one of the remaining white-backed strategy card that is currently "paired", of their choice. This happens as described in 'option 1' above. Once each player has one strategy card, the phase ends.
• The "Special" aspect of bonus counters described on the Bureaucracy card applies to both #8 Strategy cards (Imperial II and Bureaucracy).
• The "pay mercenaries" aspect described on the Trade III card applies to both #5 Strategy cards (Trade II and Trade III).
• Bonus counters are placed and applied to pairs, not the card. Picking either of the pair will award the bonus counter(s). However, when Imperial II is picked up, it still accumulates a bonus counter for next time.

This almost makes me want to try playing with 16 as well but trying it this way:

The original 8 strategies, obviously taking out Imp. I for Imp. II and possibly trading Trade I with Trade II. Then add the SE strategies replacing Trade II with Trade III if Trade I is still in play, or just have any combination of Trade 1-2, 2-3, or 1-3.

Players choose their strategies normally but instead of receiving one strategy, you receive both of the same initiative.

During the action phase, when using the strategic action, the player chooses which strategy to activate, resolve, then place both cards to the inactive side. Trying it this way might make for some saucy gameplay when it comes to strategy. Something like: "I really need him to activate Production...oh crap...he used Logistics instead!!!" or: "Ok, I have 6 resources set aside ready for Tech II, son of a...he popped Tech I."

One exception would be the Initiative/Leadership combo, the player choosing this must declare during the strategy phase if he wants to use Initiative or Leadership and if Initiative is chosen and Assembly gets activated, the speaker token does not move and the activator resolves an agenda from his/her hand.

itschowda said:

My only problem with that is the white-backed cards will probably rarely ever be chosen. If I wanted command counters, I would pick Logistics over Leadership if I could-- it's more free command counters for me, makes them more expensive for everybody else, and prevents anyone else from getting Production for the round. If I wanted tech, I'd usually pick Tech 1 to make things more expensive for everybody else. Likewise, I'd rather pick the Trade III card which gives me a mercenary and rewards me for new trade agreements right away unlike one of those others. Oh, and with Imperial II versus Bureaucracy-- it's practically a shut out. Also, if players could pick I2SC easily and fulfill any number of public objectives on their turn, you lose the incentive for pacing that is created by the white-backed set.

The system I've designed makes the black-backed cards more of a long-term strategy that players can shoot for and other players may be able to prevent. I haven't playtested this yet, but I don't see any potential problems aside from something new for players to keep track of.

Hugesinker said:

Let's both try our variants some time at least twice and somewhat scientifically record results. Game time, point totals, etc. in comparison to normal games and keep the rest of the community updated.