Bonzo said:

Sure thing

Bonzo said:

You just brought up one of the most discussed topics so far (check BGG). My opinion is that Gandalf should not be able to use his special ability with Sneak Attack or that would be almost a quest breaker all the time. So if you Sneak attack him just can use him in one Phase (his stats alone are just awesome) and then back to your hand. If you pay the 5 Resources, then use him for one full round but then discard.

This is almost sure a topic in the first official FAQ though.

Sky said:

I don't have the game yet but for what i have seen so far i think a tactik deck with Beorn,Gandalf and Gimli(i think a nice combo is to let Gimli have some wounds on him) will be a good solution for troll.On the other hand i don't know how god is tactik with the quest fase but i will find out tomorow.

servant of the secret fire said:

Just Gimli himself is a good solution for the Troll. The question remains on how to tackle the beast at the moment when he (or Aragorn) is not around.

Tactics definitely needs some help in the questing area. Legolas ability is a great asset though.

Gimli + Eowyn combination is working nicely for me so far though.

Acererak said:

I plan to make a deck like this(Gimli,Legolas and Eowyn).You use 3 copies of Gandlaf or 2 are enough for this deck ?

servant of the secret fire said:

Sounds like a great team to me. I would probably go for just 2 copies given Gandalf resurce cost and that you don´t have access to Sneak Attack (specially if you are playing with 2 players and one core set, so your pal can have his 2 copies as well). Otherwise it could be a burden more than anything...although you always have Eowyn´s ability to feed (triggers discarding one card, although doing so with Gandalf seems a bit unrespectful to the old wizard), so probably up to you ;-)

Acererak said:

AHAHAHA you can understand from my name that i prefer die than discard a Gandalf card .

Oh and i forgot to ask you.You said that Gimli alone can manage the troll.You mean with his dwarven axe right?Or he can do the job without his axe?

servant of the secret fire said:

And I can see a few Gandalfs under your avatar as well, hehe. I did use it that way (discard for extra willpower for Eowyn, he was my last card on hand) once since that point meant one stage completed before a nasty Location was going to force me another 6 quest points. I found it a necesary sacrifice the wizard was willing to make for the good of the fellowship. Ended up winning, by the way.

The Axe, the Citadel Armor, the Gondorian Blade and a few nice Tactic events for combat surely help (and definitely you will probably have some of them if you go for 2 tactic heroes). But the main point is that Gimli has 2 defense + 5 hit points which means he can stand at least one assault from the Troll himself. And in the next round, put a minimum of 6 attack strength to the combined attack on the beast. With the help of some of those assets and the rest of heroes the Troll should fall without making too much damage to your mission.

Thanks for your reply mate.If Gandalf's sucrifice was for the safety of the fellowship i think i can forgive you .

servant of the secret fire said:

You stole my deck idea before I even ever told anyone that it was my deck idea! I'm using three Gandalf, because I am scared to run with less than three, until I build up my confidence through play.

. My question was very specific. Sure thing You can build Your deck to tackle the Troll. But i was wandering how to deal with him without activatoing +4 wounds of Gandalf with the full spirit deck. When I could play Gandalt i had to chose from deal four wounds and get all the mobs engage me or lower the threat. In the second option Gandalf is only normal 4str character - that is why I asked how to kill him. The quest ordered to kill him to advance (i had enough exploration tokoens in round 3) so questing was not a solution. WIth STR6 he can kill any of the spirit deck heroes - regardless - in defence position or not.

Letrs assume You have all Heroes Ready

Then Troll engages You.

You play Gandalf > 4 wounds. (5HP left)

You declare some lamb as defender (lets assume def 1 hp2) -> death and +3 htreat.

You use Gandalf -> defence overcome and 1 damage done (4HP Left).

You attack with all the party (3 Heroes) -> deal 4 dam -> Troll is dead.

So You killed Troll at sacrifice of Gandalf, I good character, and Your threat at the end of fight is +3.

As You have Gandal and Lamb in Your play area - the minimum round is 3. It means You can have to cope with other foes and locations.

And when Troll engages You - >you have to deal with its shadow effect.

Should You exhaust any of this five characters due to some Treachery or other effect then what -> lets assume You were not able to deal last point of damage and Troll is at 1HP.

Next Round You have to have two more ready characters -> One to deal with defence, second to deal last point of damege after Your heroes. -> If you took this possibility into account it pushes the start of this sequence to Round 4 (U need to pay for the two characters)..

But what with engagements, building threats and such. How to fight (skills, moves.. any ideas) should You not have any Gandalf in Your hand. Do You have any insights into this situation?

Bonzo said:

You can put into play Gandalf with Sneak Atack and then return him to your hand at the end of the phase, but you cannot use his ability then. Why?:

SNEAK ATTACK: Action: Put 1 ally card into play from your hand. At the end of the phase , if that ally is still in play, return it to your hand.

GANDALF: At the end of the round , discard Gandalf from play.
Response: After you play Gandalf from your hand, (choose 1): draw three cards, discard one enemy from the staging area, or reduce your threat by 5.

Sneak attack obliges you to return the ally to your hand sooner (at the end of the phase) than Gandalf's card text (at the end of the round). So you don't have to discard Gandalf in that case.

But you cannot deal damage from Gandalf's ability when you put him into play with Sneak Attack. Because Gandalf's text says: After you play Gandalf from your hand .

Playing and putting into play are two different things, i think (in other card games are: for example in AGoT LCG). The first one means, that you have to play the card with all costs and by the standard rules. Putting into play bypasses normal rules and costs. Page 8 and 25 of the LotR LCG rulebook suggest that there's a difference between playing and putting into play, so i think this rule also applies in LotR.

Then:

You can put Gandalf into play with Sneak Attack, but you cannot use his ability then (but he can still fight )

fruszu said:

Completely agree with your reasoning. I am quite sure that is how Sneak Attack + Gandalf combo should be played.

Indeed. Would be near game-breaking if you could plonk down a free Gandalf and then have him do all his stuff.

fruszu said:

Does the final Gandy say that? Spoilers on BGG at least seem to indicate his text now reads: "After Gandalf enters play...", which would allows SA + Gandy combo. Going by the below, they changed Gandy's wording:

www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/lotr/lord-of-the-rings-card-spoiler/_/core/gandalf-core

Dam said:

Thank you, I didn't know that. I used spoiler from lotrlcg.com and from "promotional" (official, i thought) pictures of Gandalf's card. I don't have my copy yet (still waiting for shipping). Sorry then. If Gandalf's text is like that on cardgamedb, then Gandalf's ability will work after put into play with Sneak Attack.

Now the question to all the lucky people who have english version already: What Gandalf says? :-)

That does change the issue completely. i would now say that you CAN use Gandalf's full abilities with Sneak Attack. interesting...that is incredibly strong, but judging from the initial reports of games being played, the power curve of this game might actually need an extremely strong combo like this. Darn, it's time this game gets delivered to my door...

fruszu said:

Yes, that change has been made. I still find hard to believe that combo is valid. Will wait for official FAQ then since opinions seem varied.

I just finished my first game...and here is my impression:

Nice! I quite like the game, although I need some practice, the game seems more complex than I thought.

The Gandalf combo was already much discussed in advance I just pulled it off. It works pretty well but it didn't feel incredibly overpowered. First of all costs 5 tokens, so you really think twice before putting that guy down for 5, but also it is not so easy to have Gandalf AND Sneak Attack on your hand (true, there is but one copy of Gandalf in the initial play decks, so its almost impossible but still..). He basically kills off one enemy or gives you a huge card advantage.

What I was wondering, though is whether it is legitimate to put down Gandalf with the Sneak Attack and THEN play a Valiant Sacrifice?! I did it and that was awesome...

Ok, apart from Gandalf I was really disappointed with the cards, like some other users already stated: They are really really thin. The material seems quite sturdy though, but I really consider buying sleeves...I am a bit annoyed by this since I don't like to use sleeves for my board / cardgames...

Also I will probably start constructing multi-sphere decks really soon...I always seem to have the same cards on my hand...the ones that are 2-3 times in the deck. This makes it kind of boring since some of the cards don't really seem useful at most of the time.

Just tried the second scenario and I was defeated in every possible way I tried multiple deck combinations, but after all, I couldn't make any progress in 2B.

After having defeated the Hill Troll (with a lot of luck due to good cards in my hand) I had the problem that when I had to draw two cards in every adventure phase I drew 2 location cards in the first two rounds of 2B. So after 2 rounds I had around 10-12 Threat strength just by location cards which I couldn't handle with my heroes so the threat level kept rising and rising.

Well, guess I should practice a little more with the first scenario

DrNate said:

I think this is an obvious combo for someone who just started the game.On paper (i don't know if that works in practise) Eowyn and Legolas is a very strong combo for questing and spirit cards combine with 3 Gandalfs can help you a lot with your threat.Gimli i think is the best hero (correct me if i am wrong) for combat fase and Beorn is a very strong ally even if you don't use his abilities.

Few hours left and i will see this in practise .

Acererak said:

He has changed since demos, but whenever you demo'd the game the Sneak/Gandalf combo was highlighted. So I assume it is valid. It is a combo, however, and if you have a perfect set up is only a couple of times a game.

@servant

great, let us know what you think of the game! I managed to get hands on the game today I wish we could meet for a round of co-op!

faith_star83 said:

I am very huppy for you mate.I am glad you found a way and you have the game so soon.Distance is a promblem but never say never in life.Maybe you can have your vocations in Greece this summer and we can kick Sauron's **s together after a great day in the beach .

rings said:

Having 3 Sneak Attacks + 3 Gandalfs in your deck, plus the fact that you could double use each Gandalf card (one with sneak attack, which puts him back in your hand for a ridiculous 1 resource cost, and one paying his usual cost)...well, I see high probabilities of this happening quite a few times during a game.

Experience will tell though, I guess. Thanks for the info.

What would happen then if you have multiple players running multiple copies of Gandalf and Sneak Attack? Would their constant onslaught break the game? Or would the encounter deck manage to compensate since it plays more cards into the staging areas when there are more players?