Are these books the entire game without the need for the boxed set?

Are both necessary?

Do you need anything else (such as the dice)?

Thanks. Your explanation helps chaos abate.

I'm afraid you do really need special dice. There is a dice roller app for the iPhone (possibly also for other platforms, but I don't know of any yet).

While I have none of the guides, I suspect the Creature Guide might actually be more important than the GM's Guide. Or maybe that depends on how good you are at creating interesting creatures versus how good you are at figuring out GMing style, story flow, campaign structure, and that sort of thing.

Does the GM guide not contain essential material?

If you prefer playing WFRP 3rd "light" rather that with components, the minimum you will need is:

- Game Master’s Guide;
- Player's Guide;
- Custom dice (the more the better), available either as part of the Game Master’s Vault or sold separately (12 in one set).

I hear there are considerable errors in the book, due to printing (presumably). Is this true?

I am worming my way into the game as well. I snagged the pdf downloads for the player's guide and gm guide. They have the rules needed to run the game but the previous content boxes/cards/etc (from signs of faith, adventurer's toolkit, etc) present the game in the manner it was intended to be played. So if you only snag the player's guide and gm guide you will be missing a good portion of the bits n gadgets (even if you pick up the GM Vault and Player's Vault). On top of that you have the cookie fancy-pants dice (they're growing on me...but still). So I think the answer is that "yes" it is possible to play the game from theh GM guide, Player's Guide and Creature vault books...but it'll be a bit of a wonky experience.

So...I am laundering money to purchase all the swag...

I had hoped there would be a less expensive way to get into this game. I have no problem with FFG releasing a 'chit-dependent' product, if you like, but the buy in price for wfrp3e is, imo, too much. Certainly for me at least. That's not to say it isn't any good, but £60-70 for just the basic set (which, iirc, hasn't got much to offer wizards and priests) is just too much for me at the moment. That's a shame, and from the looks of it using the books and dice would cost at least as much.

The cost can be prohibitive but you might be able to find a lightly used pile of gear from an online source at a more reasonable price. I personally am going to bite off the full price to support my FLGS but that's just a personal quirk on my end (one amongst many

Callidon said:

I can't reconcile these sorts of price policies, even if the cpomonents justify it, for pen and paper gaming. You might expect this for things like wargaming or videogaming.

Sorry, I'm out. Thanks anyway.

Meh. When the game started to interest me, I just went out and bought every product released for it. I don't regret my purchase either. WFRPG3e is great!

Cyber-Dave said:

signoftheserpent said:

It's expensive yes... but it is worth the price. It's the most fun RPG system I've played in 20 years.

What I am saying is that you get what you pay for. If you are willing to pay the money, you will end up with an amazing system. One of the best I have ever had the pleasure of purchasing. If you are not, well, you won't. I would rather the game sell at this price than its quality go down...

signoftheserpent said:

sorry 56 quid

signoftheserpent said:

I'd say it's worth the cost. Higher Quality generally equals higher cost but in the end it's generally worth it too, since it is better.
If a gaming group goes in on it together it does not need to be a heavy investment and there are wizards/priests right out of the core box so it is possible to play with that as the only purchase for a long time. My group did it for many months, and even now almost a year later we have not reached to the 3d tier careers, so we would still manage fine without the priest/magic box (though if you do not buy the priest/wizard boxes the players are limitied to 3 faiths/orders).

Considering how good the game is (in my oppinion) I would say that this component-heavy approach was the right one, I would not trade it for any other approach actually.

It is easily one of the best RPG's I've ever played.

k7e9 said:

Better doesn't always mean it's worth the cost for everybody. A Porche 911 might be an amazing car, and very much worth it to someone who can afford it, but not everybody can. Let's face it, WFRP3 is a very expensive game. It's easily the most expensive RPG on the market. If you like the system and the cards, and you're going to use all the bits, then it's easily worth it. If you can afford it. But there are also RPGs that cost nothing, or $20. Or $50 for everything you could possibly want. The $100+ range (D&D and WFRP3, basically) is the high end of the market, and that's not for everybody. Just like an iPhone is amazing but too expensive for a lot of people.

It's not an issue for me. I've got plenty of disposable income. WFRP hardly puts a dent in that. My wife spends as much just on shoes. But not everybody is in that financial situation. In my highschool or university years, I probably wouldn't have been able to play WFRP3.

mcv said:

I guess it depends on how you view it. Most hobbys costs a fair deal of money, so a $100 isn't that expensive if you compare it with for example getting an PS3 and a couple of games and I tend to compare with different hobbies. Sure there are cheaper hobbys too and I can agree that it's expensive compared to RPG's that cost $20-$50.

Still I believe that if you want to play WFRP saving up the money for it should not be that much of a problem for most people, I for example am studying at the University at the moment and I can afford to buy the game. But since RPG's can be considered my main hobby I guess that I prioritize accordingly. It is also possible to buy it together with your gaming group.

So in the end I believe it is all about priorities, and sure everyone might not think it's worth it but I feel that it is.

To quote a wise salesman *i.e. I don't remember who said it* "Everything is worth exactly what a person will pay for it. No more, no less." That stated shop around and maybe wait for the price to drop; This system is certainly worth it.

I just picked up all the WFRP3e collection. Decided to get back into an RPG after years of no gaming at all. I have seen the prices of rpg books go up over the years, but when compared to the replay factor vs video games or other entertainment, I'll always come out ahead with a good rpg game anyday.

That being said, it can be quite an expensive investment. But seeing as how my PS3 system cost me $400 with only the lame sports game it came with, and most games hit the streets at $59 each, there's little doubting the math on what games end up costing more for the fun factor you get.

But with the core set at $100 retail (I got it 40% off at Borders with a coupon) it is still a great deal. 4 books, a slew of dice, lots of counters, cards and full color standups. Fantasy Flight is doing a superb job with the quality of the products. I have a couple of their other games and they are always impressive to me. I remember as a teen it was expensive to get all the dozens of books for D&D (thanks mom!). But now in my late 30's it's not such a big expense. So to any younger players or those on a tight budget, I suggest getting ahold of a local group that has some of the sets already and just see if you can jump in and add another great player to their group. With time you'll be able to pick and choose the items you really want and save and plan your purchases accordingly. And I've seen that they offer digital downloads of lots of the sets for about $10! Wizards/TSR never did that!! So you can download it to your laptop or iPad and have the books with you anywhere. And there's even a dice rolling app...

I have just started reading the core set and look through the expansions. I'll likely GM as I did that for almost 20 years with D&D, but it would be fun to play as a PC for a few games to learn the ropes of the new game system. (anyone in the Tacoma/Seattle area?)

For anyone who is curious here's where I got my stuff and what I paid for it. Managed to save quite a bundle over retail.

Product # Title Retail Paid Discount Seller
WHF01 WFRP Core Box $99.95 $59.97 40.00% Borders 40% coupon
WHF02 Adventurer's Toolkit $29.95 $17.97 40.00% Borders 40% coupon
WHF03 Dice set $11.95 $7.46 37.57% wargamersheadquarters.com
WHF04 Gathering Storm $39.95 $21.99 44.96% buy.com ebay store
WHF05 GM's Toolkit $29.95 $17.97 40.00% Borders online 40% coupon
WHF06 Winds of Magic $49.95 $33.47 33.00% Borders 33% coupon
WHF07 Edge of Night $29.95 $17.97 40.00% Borders store closing sale
WHF08 Signs of Faith $49.95 $33.47 33.00% Borders 33% coupon
WHF09 Creature Book $29.95 $18.63 37.80% buy.com
WHF10 Creature Vault $39.95 $24.86 37.77% buy.com
WHF11 Player's Book $49.95 $36.04 27.86% amazon.com
WHF12 Player's Vault $39.95 $31.87 20.22% amazon.com
WHF13 GM's Book $39.95 $24.86 37.77% buy.com
WHF14 GM's Vault $29.95 $18.63 37.80% buy.com
WHF15 Witch's Song $29.95 $19.77 33.99% amazon.com
WHF16 Omens of War $49.95 $32.97 33.99% amazon.com pre-order
WHF17 Black Fire Pass $39.95 $29.16 27.01% amazon.com pre-order
Totals Retail $691.15 Paid $417.89 Avg savings 39.54%

Sir Jeffrey said:

That's a lot of booty! I highlighted the items that I personally would change (no commentary or negative conotation intended). The GM's Vault essentially has a portion of the core set inside and I didn't think I would need it. However, the Player's Vault is the other portion of the core set components but there is some erata updates (Rapid Shot, Bright Order Card, Double Strike and the other Bright Wizard card), and it doesn't hurt to have duplicate careers/talents in case you end up needing them. The GM's Toolkit I haven't purchased yet, as I was going to wait to see if I really needed any of it, and I've heard the screen is not very functional (in terms of information and organization). Edge of Night looks like a pretty good adventure but I've read some mixed reviews on it and it doesn't present a lot of new game options beyond locations and item cards. I didn't buy the physical copies of the Player's and GM's guides, but I did pick them up at RPGNow in pdf format (this was my initial purchase that instigated the landslide of gear I now own) and I can't recommend that enough because it is awesome to have the core rules in a very mobile format. As for Omens of War and Black Fire Pass I have never had good luck pre-ordering anything from Amazon.com but I will surely snag those two supplements when they are generally available.

The initial investment can seem huge, but as it has been mentioned above, you'll toss out more cheddar on almost any hobby. Additionally you get so many components to throw at unruly players, and to leave lying about the house for you wife to get upset about : P

Yes, I did see that a lot of the information was reworked into the hardcover books, but I like to have some additional books for players or myself to look through during or between games. Along with the errata it made sense to me.

Still just getting my feet wet digging into this mound of info, but the GM Toolkit is not a bad buy for under $18 (with discount). The screen is gorgeous! Thick sturdy stock and I really like the texture and full color photos. Granted some of the tables on back may not be so useful in time, but it's easy enough to custom print my own references and clip them on the back as needed. Ever since I had my first DM screen as a kid I've just really liked having them. It helps to create a sense of mystery and suspence for the players. What the hell am I doing back there? What's he gonna throw at us next?hahaha!

I am seeing that there are a lot of repeat cards in the various expansions. But that can help when you can give each player a helping of all the cards they'll need and not have to share. I'd rather have extra than fall short myself.

As far as my Amazon pre-orders, they confirmed the items will ship on July 12th. Not sure but somewhere I thought I saw that Omens was out sooner than that. If so, I can cancel my pre-orders and get it somewhere else. Anyone know the exact date these hit the streets?

Besides, I guess if I ever felt I didn't need the modules and toolkits/vaults I could sell them off and keep the hardback books and dice. But as I'm just getting started and I'm a collector at heart I don't see that happening for a long time if at all.

Now if I can just round up a play group in the Tacoma area. Any suggestions anyone on where to go in the Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Washington area? I'm willing to jump in as a player in any campaign.