A Story Elements Deck (sort of)

NOTE: This is a restart topic from where I left off in the Legends Deck topic, as the project has been renamed. For the most part, this is just to start clean for some changes in how this project will develop. Here is repost of what appeared on my blog and elsewhere concerning a few changes.

First off, this is not about new cards for decks found in the game. It is a new deck that introduces little events, challenges, and possible momentary or permanent advantages. It focuses on Character (and player) in a “choice” to draw from the deck during a turn once simple criteria for doing so are met. It is rigged to work more by choice rather than purely random (well, as much choice as can be offered in a very random game). The deck can also be customized to suit the taste of any players group.

I won’t go into it further here, as that is would make this post much much longer than is necessary. I’m trying an experiment in placing the expansion’s developing documentation online via Google Docs. There are also online galleries of proposed card fronts and backs that anyone can (re)view at any time. When new or updated cards are added a gallery, I’ll post a notice here and on a few forums as well. New an updated cards will have a temporary prefix so they will appear at the beginning of the gallery until the next update.

Free time is presently scarce for me, so this is another project I proceed with as time permits, much like others ongoing at Fantastic Diversions. [Yes, I have a too many irons in the fire and really need to finish off some of them.] For those who would like to get involved to any degree, please read the documentation to get up to speed. I am looking for continuing feedback and even contributions in the area of card concepts, especially for Fortune cards (but not so much for Special Ability cards).

Anyone who contributes something that gets used will be credited as a contributor once the package is finished and released. Considering the number of concepts might come about (from others, or ones I have, including an extensive list of Special Abilities), I can even see some “booster” packs released later as well.

So dive in and nose about, then feel free to tell me anything that comes to mind, be it just about one card or about the larger scheme of the project. Now I have to get back to some real work for today.

Tales links for proposed components so far:

• Online Documentation NOTE: this is a development document with a lot of accessory information; it is not the shorter “manual” that will be included with the final package.
• Card Backs
• Fortune Cards
• Legend Cards
• Special Ability Cards
• Task Cards

A rules modification was made based on an email question submitted by a players group. For clarity, all additions or modifications made in the Tales document will be marked in blue until the next modification has been made.

It has also been suggested that all of the explanatory and optional materials (such as custom deck building) be moved to the back of document, pushing the basic play instructions to the top. This is a good idea for the final document, but for now I will hold off. New people are still accessing the document at this time to become familiar with this project's base concepts, and for that purpose, the document's current order of sections seems more appropriate. Any thoughts otherwise?

UPDATE

For those following this project in development, there are new beta cards available in the Task, Fortune, and one in the Special Ability galleries. [See this topic's opening post for links.] During the next week plus (time permitting), I’m revisiting my probability calculations for benefit/deficit and use ratios on the Special Ability cards. I discovered a few anomalies that I want to check out that may cause certain Special Abilities to rate too high or even too low for activation cost, so the numbers are quite important. But I also stopped to look at the design of the Tales card back.

The Tales card template, though inspired by the commercial Character card, was created from scratch with one exception: the braided frame and talisman corners seen on the back of all Talisman 4ER cards. So I decided to take a shot at replacing that element with something else, just for fun. This is after all a new deck somewhat outside the familiar.

The result is seen to the left, while a matching example of the current back is to the right. An enlargement is available in the card backs gallery. As you see, I added a new frame and corners. I also replaced the expansion title with an inverted reference so the card’s draw reference can be read from both ends. Later I may enlarge the text labels for improved reading; labeling is necessary for clarity and speed of play. I once again used the Character card for inspiration but also the framing graphics from the game’s box (which I’ve always liked very much) in the hope of keeping some talisman-ish flavor in the motif.

I have no idea how players will react to this, so you will have to tell me. Some may like it but still think it breaches the motif standard of the game. Chime in as you please; all reasoned viewpoints are welcome.

With a little good fortune and no surprises in my real work, I should be back here with some more by the end of the weekend.

Well, the consensus is in (mostly by email contact through by blog) about the card back. Even among those who liked the new one, almost all agreed the traditional frame with the talisman corners should be used on even alternative / new decks. So be it. I made a few adjustments, just the same, for readability as seen to the left.

There are also some new proposed cards in the various galleries [see the opening topic post for links]. Feel free to take a peek and comment on anything that strikes you. I'm still running through recalculations on Special Ability activation costs, and soon as those are done, I should have some new SA cards in that gallery.

I don't know if this has been asked before, but is it any way possible to print your cards or homemade character cards on the exact material (or almost the exact) the actual cards are printed on?

Hey, JC,

The cards look amazing! I get an error message from Googledocs when I try to read the rules, though....any ideas to help? Thanks!

RogueFan said:

I've been looking around for a service like ArtsCow that does Talisman sized cards, but I haven't found one yet. Anyone who ever stumbles on such should certainly share with all of us. It would be nice, indeed. For now, we're stuck printing on cardstock / photostock and using card sleeves. (I buy the lighter weight ones through MayDay Games in order to keep deck bloat to a minimum.

Zozimus said:

Darn! I was worried about that G-Docs trick, as that blasted system was a nightmare to use at times. I can't believe Google is charging for it in their online office apps sytems. I wanted to test it for a potential use in a collaborative project for the near future. Sorry, Z, but I have no idea what the problem might be as the doc loads for me whether I'm logged into my account or not.

Any one else out there having a problem viewing my development doc? If so, I should switch back to local authoring and just keep uploading a PDF to my DropBox.

ADDENDUM

I learned that I can download/export a G-Doc to PDF. I'll make a habit of that so people can get to it one way or another. You can find the current (in development) PDF version HERE.

Thank you so much JC. I will visit that website very soon. Does anybody know if there is company that makes personalized miniatures?

Hey R.F.... I'm not into miniatures, but a LOT of T-fans are. You might want to post a query in the main T-Forum, as collectors of such don't generally hang out in the homebrew section. I do know there are a few people here, like Mr. Brogger, who are actual figurine artists. Perhaps one of them can chime in for you.

The PDF works! Thanks! We're moving house soon, but I'll peruse it for sure and let you know if I have any ideas.

@Roguefan: are you thinking of using the miniatures as NPCs for the board? I'm currently modifying a bunch of minis for use as the ice Queen, Toad King, etc. as well as making a dice tower a la Talisman that will be peopled with familiar faces: pit fiends, the Lord of Darkness, the Vampire, the Werewolf, et al. I'm not a sculptor, but I'm finding that buying an existing mini online and using a wee bit of greenstuff will work wonders! Once we're all unpacked, I'll post some pics.

Moving... groan! Don't want to do that again anytime soon. Good luck and hope it goes smoothly - and there's no hurry on the stuff around here.

Thank you JC!!! Going there right now!

Life has become very very busy, but I am still grabbing a spare second now and then. A few new cards have been rotated into some galleries (see my sig) but nothing yet for Special Abilities. Still crunching numbers on those, but getting close to something. If anyone has a Special Ability they favor and would like to see how it comes out as a card, feel free to name it. I'll try to put those at the top of my conversion list, just for fun, as I work my way through a long list of standard and alternative S.A.s.

Now it's back to real work.

JC - had a brief look and I can open the GoogleDoc but the pages seem clipped to me - but then I checked the pdf and it is the same

so I guess that is how it is supposed to be.

This machine is Firefox 4 on Ubuntu if that helps any.

All looking good from the glance - shame I have no time. All the best.

BanthaFodder said:

Oh my... this settles the matter that GoogleDocs is a failure. Thanks Bantha, and others, for the feedback. I will make arrangements for better document hosting within the week and abandon GoogleDocs. So much for future collaborative game work using that system.

Well, life rarely turns out as one plans. I had hoped to be back before now with something substantial; work, household spring chores, and garden preparations said otherwise. A number of older ongoing projects are on hold as I use spare minutes (literally) to inch forward with this one.

There are more new cards in the card type galleries [see links below in my sig]. Past “new” additions had their prefix removed, so you might look through the galleries as a whole if it has been a while since you’ve perused them. I am still working on some calculations for Special Abilities, but it’s taking a little more than I expected. I hope to have some new cards of this type up within a week from now. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome.

ADDENDUM: All documentation for Tales has been stripped from GoogleDocs. I will maintain the master copies locally and simply upload PDFs as changes are made. Documentation has also been separated into three docs so people don't have to dig through a long document to check on what they're really after. See my sig for the new links.

UPDATE:

All Legend cards have been reworked and have a new feature. Defeating any Legend now gains the character Fate as well as the listed reward. See my sig below for links to card galleries online.

In the bottom left corner of each Legend Card is a neutral colored Fate icon with a number indicating the Fate gained; all Fate from a Legend is a gain, not a replenish. I chose to shift the Fate icon to gray so it would not indicate just Light/Dark for groups playing by the alternative rules as to which kind of Fate must be taken. Thereby this mechanic shouldn't affect the chosen way individual groups play.

This should make Legend cards more desirable even when they present some severe challenges and influences. I may also toy with a scenario (win condition) related to Fate once I complete this project as a whole.

More later...

I'm buried in revisions on a novel, so not much time to spare. I have finally settled out the "activate" cost calculations and have begun redoing the Special Abilities. Maximum cost for comparison between S.A.s is 7 generic trophy points, with differing costs/units per S.A. based on what's most appropriate to each, as before. Some have multiple ways/units to pay for their activation.

Along the way I reworked the template a bit. The "gems" or "orbs" on S.A cards are now in three colors based on the ability's emphasis: Red (Strength), Blue (Craft), and Yellow (Other). I don't know yet if I'll do the same with the other card types, though likely all Legends will remain Red. I've also added a "potency" indicator on the left end of the midbar via count of orbs there: 3 (Potent), 2 (Moderate), 1 (Weak). Rating is based on both benefits vs. deficits and opportunity of use. These two features are not for play but for custom deck building. More on that later.

There are a few new cards in the Fortune area as well, though I've started reworking the file naming structure, so they might not be appearing at the beginning of the gallery. Poke around and see what you find. [see my sig for links.]

That's all for now, but hopefully I'll be back with more soon.

A long time since I've been around here, as this place has been a dead zone. I'm finally getting around to putting together a starter deck for Talisman Tales. Sparse spare time means it won't be quick. Documentation still needs to be finalized.

Anyone interested can drop by my blog to catch up. There you will find links to the new deck galleries. The old resource and development galleries can be found below in my sig. Comments and questions are welcome, and that's all for now.

NOTE: When the core deck is complete, I will announce it here, but at the start it will only be available for download at my blog unless other Talisman fan sites pick it up. BoardGameGeek.com was told by Games Workshop to shut off fan uploads to their Talisman 4E® page. So sad (and a little petty) after 2 decades of fan additions and support for the game.