Here is the situation. I am Keeper, we are playing The Inner Sanctum scenario with Objective 1B.

Objective card 1B reads as follows:

If 4 cultists are in the Chapel, reveal this objective and place a chthonian in the Chapel.

Keeper wins if the chthonian is not killed in the next 4 rounds.

The investigators win if the chthonian is killed, or if an investigator has Clue 1 when the last Event card is revealed.

In our game at this point, three cultists are already in the Chapel and one is standing just outside when Event IV is revealed. For 1B, Event IV instructs is as follows:

"The ritual is about to begin" The Keeper may move each cultist 1 space.

This event moved the 4th cultists into the Chapel. I revealed the Objective card, and placed a chthonian in the Chapel. At this point, I told the investigators that they had to kill the chthonian if they wanted to win. One of my players looked at the Objective card and argued that since they already found clue 1, the investigators could win by just letting the clock run out. The next and final event (Event V) is revealed after 4 time counters (i.e. 4 turns).

Event V reads as follows:

If Clue 1B has been found, the investigators win the game. Otherwise, all players lose.

So who won? Will the Keeper win if the chthonian is not killed? Will the investigators win when the last event card is revealed because they have clue 1? Or did both sides win since both victory conditions were true when the last event was revealed? I have this crazy image of the cultists, investigators, and the chthonian posing for a group photo when they all share the victory.

I ruled that the investigators could only win by killing the chthonian at this point. There was much grumbing about this. This was a long game and it was absolutely heartbreaking to have it end with this cloud over it. I fear that I may not be able to get my players to play Mansions again. An official ruling from the designers would be really helpful here.

It seems to me, once the chthonian has been summoned, a clue win for the investigators should be off the table. Please chime in one and all with your thoughts.

I'd have to give it to the players. Both cards said they win... the objective said they win if they get the clue, and the clue says they win. So I think as the Keeper you have to kill them all within 4 rounds to win.

Ideally you'd reveal the objective yourself (guessing - it is not in front of me) when you had assembled your cultists and were ready to summon and they would not have the clue yet.

I'd have to re-read all the backstory and the Keeper answers but I'd also opt to round in favor of story. Does it make sense that the investigators win for figuring out the cultists are summoning a Cthonian if its already been summoned?

I'm not a designer, but it does look like everyone wins if the investigators have the clue at the end of Event V but the cthonian is still alive. The investigators have solved the mystery and survived, but the cultists still get to have their evil being.

There are scenarios where no one wins, so I guess it just makes sense to me that one might result in everyone winning. Something to keep in mind is that the Keeper can still make the investigators lose. Even if they find the clue, someone has to have it on them at the end of the event. If you kill the investigator holding the clue then it's now on the floor of that room and someone has to go pick it up before time runs out. Or you can use a card to make them drop the item in the room. It seems like the investigators really want to kill the cthonian to ensure their victory.

imanfasil said:

Actually, judging by story and flavor text, I think that things are not in favor a clue win at this point.

1st, the Keeper's guide Story Choice 1B reads :

1. The purpose of the cult is to:

B. Help a chthonian enter our world

2nd, Clue 1B reads:

You find Marie, tied and gagged to a chair. You remove the dirty bandanna from her mouth - "Quickly my friend, leave me here. They are preparing something monstrous in the Chapel. Go stop them!" Reveal Objective (The investigators in my game found Clue 1B in the first turn after the Event IV, so the objective was was already revealed and the chthonian had already been summoned.)

3rd, Event IV instructs that keeper may move a cultist one space with flavor text that reads "The ritual is about to begin". This really makes no sense if the keeper can no longer win at this point.

FurinMirado said:

Although it bizarrely humerous for both sides to win, I am really not in favor of that outcome. Killing the investigator holding clue 1 is not really an option. Here is the full text of Event V:

"The witching hour comes and goes without the ritual taking effect. Angry cultists start to flood into your room, looking for a target for their rage. They quickly form a circle around you and, in a primal fury, begin to tear you apart"

If Clue 1B has been found, the investigators win the game. Otherwise, all players lose.

Here again, a clue win no longer seems to be supported. The ritual has taken effect. The chthonian has already been summoned.

A simple solution, that hopefully would satisfy all players is simply to exted the game for 1-3 rounds, by using the optional game length rule in the last page of the Rulebook.

If no player would win by normal game end, always take 1 extra turn, then start rolling when the last event card is supposed to be resolved at the end of the keepers turn.

When i played the first mission (as Keeper) i lost since I had waited a round to long to summon the [creature] that needs to escape in 1C. I feel that if it becomes clear that if no one can win the game (or all players loose the game) it always makes sense to allow the game to go on for a round or two, untill one side has fullfilled its Objective.

In your case of 4 rounds vs. 4 rounds; the Investigators will win after 4 rounds, as the Investigator turn ends before the Keepers turn, so their victory condition will come to pass, before the keepers.

Hope my suggestion & input was helpfull.

cylle123 said:

Sorry missed a detail - in this case (4 rounds vs. 4 rounds) you would win, as you fullfill the victory condition [Cth not killed in 4 rounds] as soon as the Investigators turn 4 ended, since they have no chance of killing it during the keeper turn. Do not resolve the rest of your keeper turn, as soon as one side has won, the game needs not go on any longer, you do not need to draw or resolve the last event card.