Are named monsters subject to the effects of treasure items (copper, silver, gold) that ignore undying if they have undying, or are they subject to the same restrictions as normal and master monsters who also suffer from undying but lose it to these weapon types? If so does this get affected in any way by the named monster who gets to roll two undying saves?

Named monsters are immune to stun. Apart from that all abilities and effects affect them in the same way as they affect any other monster. So if a hero has a weapon which ignores undying it ignores the undying ability of normal (Are there any normal undying monsters? Not sure ...) as well as master and named monsters.

I don't know which monster is allowed to roll two power dice when its undying ability is triggered. But when attacked with a weapon which ignores undying there should be no rolls at all-the monster should die immediately without being given the chance to roll any dice. Unless it is stated otherwise in the Quest description.

Shatteredragon said:

They suffer because of the painful irony of never rolling what they need to stand up again. =P

kalev said:

+1 for all your answers.

I vaguely remember the leader that rolls two dice though I don't recall if the ability was still called Undying "only it rolls two dice instead of one" or if it had a different Bolded Name as well. If the ability the leader has is still called Undying then I agree, the Staff of the Grave (et al) would shut it down completely. If it was called Something Else then one could make a reasonable case that it still functions (fully) because it's a different ability that happens to work very much like Undying .

Ah I see, so a copper level item planned and used in all killing blows against undying effectively removes undying from the game... hmm, nice, well I let it slide and it seems that it was the right thing to do so I'll go with the run.

As to the dreaded Undying roll, if anything has gone successful in my games it is this one, and in RtL I don't have to roll three times knowing that by the second or third rollover of damage a lack of "surge" is pretty much guaranteed. Lol, I'll probably stop reading undying on the cards, since pretty much only the undying killer bothers to attack undying creatures anymore. Ah well, it was a semi useful ability.

Steve-O said:

Dungeon card #21 King of the Mountain: "Berit rolls two dice when making Undying rolls, succeeding if either rolls a surge.

Which makes it undying

on the other hand...

Dungeon card #8 The Warrens: In reference to Ebon & Onyx "They lack the Undying ability, but if either is alive at the start of the overlord's turn the more grievously wounded brother is automatically healed - even if he was killed - so that he has the same numver of remaining wounds as his less-injured brother."

...wouldn't be affected by said weapon ability.

Shatteredragon said:

If it really bothers you that much, use a Crushing Blow on it. That's what Crushing Blow is for. Myself, I've failed enough Undying rolls that I no longer consider that ability when formulating my strategies. If an Undying creature revives, that's a bonus I can use, but I had a plan regardless.

Shatteredragon said:

Correct on both counts.

Steve-O said:

Oh I can't wait to add treachery to my options, including this card, till then I've been using Master Deep Elves and Frost to accomplish this, last game a Frost token took out Nanoks damage till one of the players could hand him a weapon that was about half as effective two rounds later. I can see why they made it impossible to play more than one Master Deep Elf per original spawn, or future spawn. Frost is almost as devastating as Crushing Blow. I suspect the first time I use "Crushing Blow", Thorn will save his "Preventing Evil" feat card for that one in future games, I'll get one good use out of it though, maybe a few if the timing and draws work out.

I have no problem with it ignoring Undying, and I treat any random roll as non existant and just another roll till it comes up good, 33ish% chance to restore a monster to full health in RtL is far better than it's Vanilla counterpart ruling. But it makes sense that for everything the OL can do, there would be Hero options to stop or reverse or block it in some way. I just wasn't sure if it applied to "Named" monsters.

Besides, why would a "Named" monster be more powerful than a Lt, pretty much these "ignore Undying" weapons are the only way to kill the Sorcerer Kings Lt, Krieg the Relentless permanently. If it is powerful eneogh to affect a Lt then it makes sense anything under it in strength would also be as easy to destroy. I just didn't read the Lt's or I wouldn't have bothered to ask.