JerusalemJones said:

Just to confirm - I agree that it is fine now. Although didn't Mathlete say he put down $400 or so? That is getting up there for people who want complete sets. HOWEVER, much less than getting into Magic even with rotation!

I know my mind is spinning with the options in my decks now. I am pretty excited to get back to deck building, and more excited to play (which is the main litmus test).

That is about the cost of a championship deck in MTG bought a la carte. If they do reprint the oldest stuff when they run out I think we can expect them to be in the new distribution, which would make things cheaper for new players wanting to get in and own everything.

I agree with the sentiment that many cards are now "effectively banned." One thing that will be interesting to see in the future is how often cards actually get banned. If the restricted list keeps problem cards in check from a metagame perspective (i.e. no particular deck is unbalancing the environment due to a particular restricted card but a particular restricted card is showing up to the exclusion of all other restricted cards from that house), will FFG just leave them alone on there? I guess that's not that bad, but it could mean that many other cards become effectively banned as they sit in line and wait for other cards to get truly banned.

Valar has no place on that list at present. Maybe, *maybe* if they printed more character reset cards, it could be considered, but at that point it probably wouldn't be so ubiquitous so there would be no point in putting it on the list. I know some people refer to Valar as a "crutch." That is true, but it is a crutch used by the game's designers, not by the players. Valar is a corrective mechanism necessary to compensate for variance in Setup and opening hands. Take any two random LCG decks, remove Valar from both, and play some games and you will find that a good percentage of the losses feel like something that the losing player just had no control over because the opponent just flooded the board too quickly. There are no other cards that really serve as an equalizer for these situations as Valar does.

I was thrashing with Fury of the Lion, but narrow escape is much more important to my deck's functionality. Time to update my deck.

Will the presence of a Restricted List call for more deck lists and deck checks before tournaments? Outside of GenCon and a couple large events, I've rarely seen a strong push for decklists and the only deck check I remember was at the Murder event in Madison. Will the presence of the Restricted List change that?

Kennon said:

Would like to see Compelled on the current incarnation of the list. Don't necessarily expect it to be taken over Castellan or Cache, but I prefer for the players to make that decision, not FFG.

As to Jaquen, you would be giving up quite a bit to get him. I would like to see it attempted. He can always go back on the ban list if it doesn't work.

If you enjoy being on the receiving end of the SuperBeric combo deck, but feel "This just doesn't crush me hard enough", then you would probably enjoy Jaqen being put back in the environment.

rings said:

You're right - we should probably restrict Shadows Varys. I mean, he's prevalent, low risk, high reward. Right?

rings also said:

To be honest, I lost more games to the rock/paper/scissors nature of the Furies

My awesome retort: The Furies aren't rock/paper/scissors at all. If your opponent's Fury hits you, your Fury will hit them. That's like Rock/Paper/Neither, where every plot is Rock and also Paper, or neither.

Edited because I have things to say!

Another consideration is to put both Blood of the First Men and The Free Folk agendas on the Restricted List. You can get cheap wildlings or you can get Stealth, but you can't get both.

I think its fine if they let ACoA go out of print and put the set up for print on demand.

skeletonator said:

~Yeah, that Lanni Fury sure does make up for getting hit with the Stark Fury early!

bloodycelt said:

On Valar, put me in the category of "NO WAY should this be restricted." I agree though that with fewer Narrow Escapes, Valar could get a bit of a boost. Still, as others have mentioned, I don't think Valar is as skill-less as many people make it out to be. Killing all of the opponent's characters at the cost of no claim often has a less than perfect result, and in the event that an opponent has surprise saves or Narrow Escape, it can easily be a game ender. In some ways, Valar is the ultimate gambling card...1 out of 5 times it helps you wreck the opponent, 1 out of 5 you get wrecked as a result, and 3 out of 5 it's usually marginally beneficial. Also keep in mind that as certain houses get stronger - Bara rush, Targ ambush, etc. - Valar is a less attractive option.

All around I'd say Valar currently should not be banned. Maybe if the restricted list surprises us and somehow makes Valar more powerful, then we can always throw it on. But for now I think it's a great thing for everyone to have access to.

Deathjester26 said:

It does when you kneel The Blackfish and discard 7 power from him, when he managed to kill...hrm...some game winning Lannister character?

Frankly, I can't remember any game that I won or lost on the back of an opening Fury plot.

There might have been a handful that I staved off loss late in the game by discarding someone's power though.

skeletonator said:

I sure would have prefered using target kill to get rid of the Blackfish all together... I'm not saying the Lanni Fury doesn't have its uses, but target kill will almost always be better.

Deathjester26 said:

Oh...I see. So what you're saying is that not all the Fury plots are of equal efficacy, and maybe they don't deserve to be all grouped together in terms of power level. Since they're all restricted, and everyone universally refers to all six as "the Fury plots," I was under the impression that they were all pretty equivalent. My bad, dawgs.

When playing Baratheon against either Martell or Targ, I tend to hold my Fury until later in the game (especailly against Martell) in the hopes that after I win a POW challenge I can steal your character with all the renown on it and win the game. It is the only Fury that has the ability to win you the game off of its ability.

Been away for a long birthday holiday. The best present I got was the Restricted List! Thanks FFG for saving the competitive tourney scene. Brillinat!

The Furys didn't have to go - strtctly sepaking - but putting tehm on teh list does open up Plot deck slots. They were auto includes.

And tha Valar stuff makes me laugh. Of course this card should be restricted - and its foolish to say that woudl effectively ban everything else. You stlll have Wildfire as a reset (of - boo hoo: it doesn't kill everything - I still have to work to get rid of the serious threat characters!) And to say its balanced because tis zero claim! Ha! Its the umtilamet military claim card! Geez. The environment would be much more strategic with the reset base being Wildifre + Winter Storm + Bleeds all of which take actual skill and planning into play, as opposed to the ability to turn over a card in a deck.

But whatever - its never getting restricted and I accept that. i long ago came to terms with the fact that from Nate French on down, the Valar cult is deep and com;ulsive and won't be going anywhere. I just really found it entertaining to see the cultists start to gnash their teeth and chant their mantras of balance when another poster had the unmitigated temerity to suggest that this Plot may need to be looked at. You'll learn Jack Merridew - you'll learn. when you dare to criticize the brilliance of Valar, the mob will howl and seize their pitchforks.

Thanks again for the Restricted List though. Thsi is great news.

!

skeletonator said:

Right. They are not all as good, but if you win the first turn coin flip (yes, I should have said coin flip instead of Rock/Paper/Scissors) with any of the house (especially Stark vs. Lanni)...you are probably doing pretty well. I can count how many times on one finger I have kneeled/discarded power and attachments off someone for a huge profit, but remember many times Jaime got 'put to the sword' first turn. Because heaven help us if we actually get to play big/fun characters first turn out of Lanni, and not play weenie hyper-kneel.

And Kennon, I have basically beaten you on a first turn Fury. It doesn't seem like it since usually people don't lose that turn, but it changes the entire game on who wins that flip. As a dedicated tempo player, it changes the entire game on who is in the controlling seat.

Wait..... Rings, are you sure we've ever played AGoT against each other? lol, I only remember Warhammer and maybe Cthulhu(?) at the moment.

They should put the Lannister house card on the restricted list along with all their kneel effects :-P

Kennon said:

~Obviously this means you were so devastated by losing to rings your subconscious chose to forget those matches.

Haha, nope, I didn't put a tilde because I honestly don't think we've actually played against each other.

Maybe someone already mentioned this and I missed it, but I think the inclusion of the Fury plots strengthens the Neutral House card quite a bit. The restricted list is primarily house-specific cards and doesn't affect Neutral House nearly as much with the exception of Val and NE. It might not be competitive yet, but Maesters may give it a huge boost - if nothing else, At the Gates and Oldtown Raven are certainly going to cut down OOH penalties.