ok, so now that i've got Battlefleet Koronus, my players are going to want to upgrade their ship to a grand cruiser. how does a Rogue Trader go about doing so? I mean crunch rules wise anyway. i'm thinking it's probably going to be a somewhat large endeavor, unless there's something I missed in the Profit factor rules.
thoughts? comments? suggestions?
Endeavour is probably the best way to handle it, but there is actually a section in the Acquisition rules (core book, p274).
Paraphrasing:
Ignore all modifiers bar those gained from a successful Commerce test, and the Hull Modifier.
The Hull Modifier is equal to the base SP value of the hull.
This doesn't get you components, though. Acquiring components is done using table 9-36 in the Core Book, or the expanded rules in Battlefleet Koronus (pp17-19).
I think you could use a PF roll, with some super serious negatives. Grand Cruisers are Extremely Rare, Are a War purchase... You could have a roll or you could use it as an endeavor.
i'm leaning towards using it as an endeavor myself. the components (standard ones anyways) can be simple aquisition checks, archaeotech and xenos items can be handled as a combination of PF and endeavors.
hmm. i'll check out that page number though Alasseo. thanks man!
The way we handle it: build a ship the way you would build one during character creation, find out its total cost in SP, use that total as the modifier for the acquisition test. Add an endeavour in case that would make the buying the ship too easy.
As a GM, the idea that it's categorically impossible to get a ship that didn't have all essential and supplemental components stripped out beforehand strains my suspension of disbelief too much, while rolling an Acquisition test for every single component would mean too much dicerolling for my tastes. So Endeavour and/or cumulative SP point cost it is.
Gokerz said:
As a GM, the idea that it's categorically impossible to get a ship that didn't have all essential and supplemental components stripped out beforehand strains my suspension of disbelief too much, while rolling an Acquisition test for every single component would mean too much dicerolling for my tastes. So Endeavour and/or cumulative SP point cost it is.
Totally agree, and one of the ideas I toyed with for my group was have a new-build or salvaged ship come with Essential Components, and simply use the rules for combining Acquisitions to get the check modifier (works out as an extra -40 modifier, on top of the Hull Modifier), then make them acquire Supplementals separately.
I didn't end up using that idea though, as my players simply captured ships they liked. So they wind up with a minor Endeavour getting their prize back to a friendly port, (relatively) unequivocally theirs from a legal standpoint, and repaired and refitted to their liking, ship-shape and Ganymede-fashion.
Stan's Previously Owned Vessels
always figed they had the base components, maybe not weapons or maybe some old bare bones ones, but you pay for most common parts with the ship cost. You only pay extra for parts that cost extra SP's.
For exsample you bought a havoc class raider.
It would have
A Jovian class 2 drive
A Strelov 1 wrap
A Geller feild
A Single void shiled array
A combat or armored command bridge
A M 1-r life sustainer
Pressed crew quuartes
M-100 Agure arry
As these are standed components that cost zero ship points. This is the way I read it and the only way that makes a lick of sense to me.
Fortinbras said:
Stan's Previously Owned Vessels
"Honest Al's Used Starship Emporium"!
I have ruled along the same lines as Hunterindarkness - a succesful roll of the PCs' profit factor minus the hull's SP cost will have a shipyard refit a starship with all essential components in around d10 months for the PCs' dynasty. Supplemental components must be purchased separately, but a few space combats might supply the players with a handful of components salvaged from their enemies (given that they have the facilities to salvage them).
The rules aren't clear as to what components are in a newly aquired hull, but I've rule that the all the essential components are included, but all are of the cheapest variety (bridge being a Standard Bridge, etc). Rolling for each essential component would take a bit too many rolls for my tastes especially as I am trying to keep things in motion. The d10 months of refit time removes the option of simply mass-producing ships, one per session. Of course the players may have many ships commissioned.
I have limited attempts to aquire a new sharship to one roll per session where the players are at a salvage yard or a space dock. But having said that, I don't want to make aquiring new hulls too difficult. In a grand war-themed campaign ships are basically commodities - the PCs' flag ship might survive from battle to battle but their support flotilla is bound to take losses. Especially when repairing damaged hulls isn't really fast or easy either...
sinisalo said:
Fortinbras said:
Stan's Previously Owned Vessels
"Honest Al's Used Starship Emporium"!
Buy the best starships at Crazy Hassan's Used Camel Emporium! A free flock of camels included in every transaction!
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During the meritech wars we developped fine reputation for the reliability of our craft in the face of the techno heretik raiders, the Sector Governess Myram Havala herself praising the sturdiness of our vessels, leading our docks and administratum charter of excellence.
But thats not all! Not only to we offer our traditional refitted transport vessels we also have newly aquired some staggeringly ancient hulked raiders, which have been reconsacrated for the Emprahs service to smite those who deny his name and live in the shadows.
Do you have problems with pirates and disgusting xeno interlopers? Hire one of our Hazeroth raiders and watch in satisfaction and contempt as all manner of foes or commercial rivals cower at the blazing firepower of our fine plasma cannons.
At our docks at beorma Prime we can find all manner of 'experienced voidsmen', and with the Beorma secundus penal colony you never have to worry about being short handed in the enginarium.
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What are you waiting for! Come visit our commercia manse on Beorma Prime and we will take you on a free trip to our excellent planetside docks as well as our orbital refitting stations. Or come and see our offices on Scintilla and Port Wander for a quick quote on your staship needs.You wont be disappointed!
Terms of agreement;
'Reasonable' Wear and tear on ships will be taken in gelt or life at the end of contract. Purging Xenos presence does not constitute reasonable wear and tear. All ships fitted with minimum essential components. Geller field must be hired seperatly. Rogue Traders must be able to prove recent continual endevour success for at least three years. Please note that when ship is leased Inquisitorial agents have free access to travel UP TO AND INCLUDING luxuary quarters. Failure to respect the inquisitorial rosette may lead to breaking of the contract and repossessing of the ship and may also lead to customer and ships crew to be tried for heresy.
If you didn't want to be as generous as giving the players free essential components, you could make some or all of the essential components poor quality. That would encourage the players to switch them out when they were able to, but the ship would still function.
It would also give the new ship some character: "That Chaos-spawned auger array Blue Screened of Death again! I'll feed that swindler Al his own entrails!"
Stan's Previously Owned Vessels is a Monkey Island joke.
Fortinbras said:
Stan's Previously Owned Vessels is a Monkey Island joke.
Don't worry, I got it. Almost certainly others did.
Of course, now I want to introduce an NPC whose clothes show a plaid pattern that looks exactly same no matter how he moves, or what angle it's seen at...
I would make the acquisition of a Grand Cruiser an adventure all its own. I would follow one of these routes:
The Grand Cruiser is part of a Space Hulk terrorizing a settlement and the players respond to help.
The Grand Cruiser is planet-bound and is the center of a Chaos Cult, and the players set out to exterminate them.
The Grand Cruiser is a legacy, having sat mothballed for a thousand years, with a haunted machine spirit, and in need of systems repair, swarming with vermin and hull ghasts. The act of getting this vessel underway would be several adventures by itself. Systems could work fine, then shut down due to burned out relays and conduits, the vessels could drop out of warp due to engine failure or worse.
Outright acquisition rolling for an antique like this just does not seem right to me. It took me 9 months to find 2 Excorcist Grand Cruiser models for BFG recently, so they are hard to get in any game system.
There is a scrap yard out there that is bound to have a few hulls of your liking...
and if not keep going a bit to toward the galactic rim and they says there is a giant procession of starship of any kind and class...
---++++++----
" - Cap'tan we found a 'ull y'ud may like... it's crawling with them empty mans.
- All personnel on board, I know you all fear entering the procession of the Damned, but I have just sent this ship in a direct course with the sun... All personnel are ordered to go to there respective shuttles and or landers, we are not going away without that grand cruiser!!
- Ah Oye Cap'tan"
Last records of the Nymph, frigate class and flag ship of House Damacia
I like the idea of creating an endeavour to get just the basic hull with poor quality essential components intact, and then acquiring the supplamentals themselves. One question I've had recently is what to do with the players current ship: trade in? sell for salvage?
My players right now have a perfectly good Firestorm-class frigate, and they're looking to move up to a light cruiser, or cruiser. I've been toying around with the idea that if they sell the ship, either to a salvage yard, or back to the Navy, then they'll get a bonus towards getting that new hull they want, etc. How would you guys do it?
Keep it.
Build a fleet.
Become a true Rogue Trader
Bring the word of the Emperor to the heathens.
Trade with the Xenos until there is no more to trade, then kill them.
Become fabulously rich and famous in the process
Sit in your comfy chair on the bridge of your fleet's flagship and drink the most expensive Amasec in all the Imperium.
Some games may require your PCs to stay smalltime. Rogue Trader shouldn't be one of them.
Instead, help your players rock the Universe and become legends of the Expanse.
No boundaries. No stopping. No looking back.
Only ambition.
P.S. and fun! lots of fun!
with all the pirates running about and if your GM has the ship generator from the Gm screen kit you might get lucky and encounter one. if you have a firestorm with a lance, some good tactical sense and faith in the emporer you could bag a fully out fitted ship. question is who gets to be captain, or captain of the old ship.
crisaron said:
" - Cap'tan we found a 'ull y'ud may like... it's crawling with them empty mans.
- All personnel on board, I know you all fear entering the procession of the Damned, but I have just sent this ship in a direct course with the sun... All personnel are ordered to go to there respective shuttles and or landers, we are not going away without that grand cruiser!!
- Ah Oye Cap'tan"
Last records of the Nymph, frigate class and flag ship of House Damacia
I laughed heartily. now, time to try to capture back the Nymph !
Gokerz said:
The way we handle it: build a ship the way you would build one during character creation, find out its total cost in SP, use that total as the modifier for the acquisition test. Add an endeavour in case that would make the buying the ship too easy.
As a GM, the idea that it's categorically impossible to get a ship that didn't have all essential and supplemental components stripped out beforehand strains my suspension of disbelief too much, while rolling an Acquisition test for every single component would mean too much dicerolling for my tastes. So Endeavour and/or cumulative SP point cost it is.
The first paragraph of this answer is what the rulebook says to do.
Adding an endeavour would be a good plan too
