Now will we see rules for the Chaos Spaceships and vehicles? Or even specialized like Daemon-possessed items? Or will this be a supplement you think?

- DW: Rites of Battle
- DH: Radicals
- DH: Disciples of the Dark Gods

Considering no core book had vehicle rules until now (apart from the star ship rules in RT which were an absolute necessity for the core setting) I don't think they'll start now.

Makes sense and I see Chaos Starships in the latest Rogue Trader installment. Awesome

I kinda hope not, to be honest.

I imagine we will definitely get a supplement similar to Into the Storm for Black Crusade that will contain vehicles rules and a selection Chaos vehicles. The interesting thing is that FFG tries very hard to avoid printing duplicate information so I'd imagine we would see material not covered in previous books (primarily Rites of Battle, Battlefleet Koronus and possibly Mark of Xenos).

Hopefully the vehicle rules are in a supplement. I don't have a problem with that and to be completely honest, I'm kind of looking forward to the fluff more than anything else.

Well for Black Crusade...a simple line telling about wtf the Space and Power info of these wonderful Chaos Ships they so kindly put into BFK, but said tha since we didn't "have" to build these ships that we could just use the stats as given. Despite the fact that many of these ships either still see Imperial service or have been phased out (given to Rogue Traders?)

It also leads me to the concept of allowing us to play as aliens, but not play with these aliens in alien ships.

And...where are the Dark Eldar? Did I miss something?

This is all nice, but giving us a kernel of info for each major book is staring to come off like World of Darkness. At the prices that books are now? Ouch!

There are stats for the Dark Eldar in Purge the Unclean for Dark Heresy they are also mentioned in Battlefleet Koronus. Based on what races have been detailed so far for each game I expect to see the Dark Eldar presented in Black Crusade along with Necrons and Imperial forces.

While I initially dismissed them as a possibility since they don't really like Chaos any more than the 'good' Eldar do, I recently reconsidered.

I don't think they'd be adverse to working as mercenaries, for the promise of many slaves, not to mention the carnage to be wrought. Of course, all the while they'd be looking for opportunity to betray their erstwhile allies.

Agreed. I REALLY hope they come up with a couple new vehicles or spaceships, that would be cool. And if BC covered a bunch on Dark Eldar.

If they give them anything, it'd probably be done in a way similar to how they did the Orks and Kroot in Rogue Trader.

And I know I'd love to fly around on a Reaver jetbike.

vastrix said:

Thank you! I've been saying all along that Rogue Traders would be more likely to use older ships, considering that a Trader vessel would be passed down along with the Warrent of Trade.

I certainly hope we do. Think about the huge number of Chaos vehicles that are unaccounted for (especially if you look at the Forgeworld stuff.)

As I read through the forums, it seems like there are consistently two camps--those who don't want to have to spend money and those who do. I agree that I wouldn't want to pay twice for the same info or see two power levels of stats (happened already), but I personally like the idea of a good number of Chaos-specific supps with lavish production values. Fortunately, as FFG is in the money making biz, we can bet there will be quite a few...

AX

It's not the money. It's the subject matter. This isn't a wargame, and I don't need vehicle rules. Vehicles are not something I need detailed rules for in RPGs, because they'll either be things to shoot (in which case stats are ok, but I can make it up, and don't need detailed rules), or something the players are sat in, in which case I want it to break when I want it to, and not before!

If I wanted mass vehicle combats I'd play Carwars, basically. Vehicle combat are a bad device in a game because they general mean half the party does nothing, and that if something goes wrong everyone dies/spends a FP.

I like to see the space used for things that crop up more often in my games than vehicle combat.

You know I'm fine with fan-supplied info on Chaos ships and vehicles. And while the stats are nice, it is true that when I run games...every dice roll is fudgeable to whatever results that I want them to be. The Game Screen is King! If I just went on straight dice rolls, characters would almost always die before I wanted them to be it npcs or pcs. Then again...I have a habit of rolling dice behind my game screen and nodding or mumbling to myself. It makes the players paranoid about what's to come. Especially when it's paired with the fact that I have all of the numbers from pcs to see what kind of perception abilities they have cause telling them to roll their Perception score makes them aware that's something is about to happen and they use the ooc info.

vastrix said:

Another fun way to instill paranoia is to ask to see their sheets & don't say why. My daughter nearly always objects with ", What, no, why?!!?!" I simply say ", Okay, you fail." She then grimaces & passes the sheet. Never gets old!

@ Siranui,

Agreed on many of your points, but the design philosophy seems to be trying to appeal to the tabletop community by coming up with stats for these sorts of things--just look at the Starship combat rules in RT or all the vehicles in RoB. So I think they've decided to go the mechanics route rather than the abstraction route. (Of course, one doesn't have to buy those supps if one prefers abstraction.) But from a business perspective, can you blame them? There are a huge number of 40K players playing these RPGs now who love the idea of having rules for vehicles, Titans, etc. I am one of them--yes a table-top RPG heretic!

Oh, I'm not saying it's a bad business idea. It's just something that I probably couldn't be less interested in!

Ultimately, unless a GM is willing to roll the dice and potentially say at some point 'ok, that shot hits your reactor, you all die and loose everything. Including you three who don't have any spaceship combat skills, and have been sat there looking bored for the last two hours of spaceship combat', then formalised spaceship combat rules are a bit of a waste of ink.