Ok, I've just been looking over the ads for the reprints of the old cycle, Summons of the Deep, and noticed that it was 3 copies of 20 cards, for a total of 60! Is Fantasy reprinting their old cycles under a new format, or is this an error in their advertising? Maybe I somehow missed it, but I would think that if they were going to do this, I would hear a lot more lead up to it. I would love it if they did, though some of my excitement is diminished at the thought of re-buying 14 sets. (OMG. I'm an addict.)

EnigmaKnight said:

No error in advertising, they are updating the older asylum packs which were 10x1 & 10x3 into the newer 20x3 format.

There was a fair amount of talk leading up to it. James Hata revealed it at the Arkham Nights event last October and FFG confirmed this on their site a month later .

They even recently announced that the "Madness and Horror" cycle (now renamed "Forgotten Lore") is being reprinted with the updated collation.

I dont see any real reason to buy the reprints unless you missed them the first time though. Thankfully, getting an entire playset of cards cost half as much as it did when the game was initially launched, so there is that major bonus.

EnigmaKnight said:

And yes, I'm also not enjoying the thought of rebuying 14 APs

Ok, now that I'm looking for it, I see the news for it pretty much everywhere. There's even an ad on this page. Feeling a little stupid now.

No need to feel stupid. It's not like they emailed you the news or anything...

Although, that might not be a bad marketing idea for FFG. Automated Email news to users about games that they list in their collection here. It's one bit of spam I wouldn't mind receiving at all.

Hmm... I might relay that idea to Anton or Jaffer....

I glad to see Madness and Horror being redone too. That set contains one of the last AP I don't have.

I was missing only The Spawn of the Sleeper and got that a little while ago. What a relief! I think I might still get the Forgotten Lore set, just to be able to build more complete decks without swapping cards around. Even if there are 13 packs to re-buy, I'm considering some of them. It's probably best to go over the online spoilers to see which packs have what you need, though

This is fantastic news for newer players. It makes getting into the game even easier than before, and less of a headache trying to figure out how many sets you need/want to buy. This just increases the temptation to completely switch over from my other CCGs even more...

I was wondering...

Will there also come a reprint to the core set where you get 2 copy's of each core set card? A box like the big expansions would be perfect, without the cthulhu statues, story cards, rulebook, tokens and board for lets say the price of aprox. 30 dollars? The core set will still be useful for getting the thingies that are leftout in the reprint

I hate buying 2 more big boxes to get 2 useless boards, hords of cthulhu statues and such. Especially because I have most of the cards already in the black bordered version. I just miss a couple of rares. If reasonable priced i would however buy this reprint to get those missing cards and to play with only white boardered cards.

I agree with Darkman's post!

I would pay $30 for x2 of all the Core set in White boarder.

Doesn't FFG now have the capacity to do small run printing for this sort of thing? I wonder if they could do a feeler for how much interest they would get in this sort of offering.

Yeah me too, I think it's a great idea.

Starters would buy the 1x core set with the board, figurines and story cards.

Advanced players would grab the 2x core set for serious deckbuilding.

Well, core set had 155 cards + 10 story cards. So at 2 each, that would be 310 cards. RIght now Asylum Packs contain 60 cards and sell for $15. So that would be 310/60 = 5 1/6. Call it 5 to be nice. You should expect the box you are seeking to cost about 5 times more than an asylum pack then, right? So $75 sounds about right for the price, not $30.

What am I missing here?

Nothing really. The Core Sets seem to be priced the same way video game consoles are, at a minimum profit point with the idea of making up the money in increased sales of the games (cycle packs).

I just don't see the idea of an expanded Core Set being particularly profitable for them. The point of the Core Set is two-fold I believe, offer an excellent out of the box game for super casual, more board game oriented players, and act as a base for deck building for the more serious card gamer. If you really want multiples of the cards then I imagine you'd be willing to pay for it. When you do the cost breakdown you still end up ahead by buying three core sets than if you were to have the buy the cards in a cycle, assuming The Professor's math was correct.

The AP comparison does not work because the price point changes depending on quantity. Think of it like buying a big vat of chocolate sauce at Costco (and then spreading all over an Albino Goat Spawn before licking it off).

Based on the AP system it would cost $75

Based on ST "deluxe" box it would cost $60

If you want to go by this scale, an all in one 350ish card set would hang around the $40-$50 range. Since the x2 Core would be less cards and given the discounts available on ebay and certain on-line stores, $30 is realizable for the smart shopper.

It is fine if they do not do it because we will continue to use black boarder cards for the Core.

Calculating a price of 75 dollars for an expanded core set is not really great math realizing that the core set can be obtained for about 30 bucks.

You also compare this expanded core set with asylum packs. I should make the comparision with the big boxed expansions like Order of the silver Twilight. This expansion can be obtained for about 24 dollar. In Europe I can get it for 18 euro. It has 165 cards in it.

Realize that the core set does not contain a single card that has not already been designed, so no extra development costs here which have to be earned back. It will have about 2 times the cards of Order of the Silver Twilight which only contained brand new cards. Also realize that larger print runs drop the costs per card. Looking at these facts I think a price of 30,- is not that unrealistic. Ok, lets make it 35 dollars and I still buy it. They may even skip the box for me and put it in the cheapest possible packaging to make this price tag possible.

Hate to say it but I think you are dreaming. You want all the CS cards x2, plus the ST cards for $35? Where is the benefit for FFG? Seriously, if it is not in their best interest financially it isn't going to be done. The cheapest MSRP they seem to print cards at is around the $0.22 mark per card. This includes reprints. You want 310 cards (I'm ignoring the OOtST), that is $70.31. You are better off buying two Core Sets from an online distributor.

Read my post (except for the part about the Albino Goat Spawn). Your math is wrong. The cost between the smaller AP and the ST deluxe goes down. Since the Core was a bunch of reprints anyway the cost for that set should go down somewhat proportionately. Mr. Darkness is not suggesting they include ST, he is saying that based on the price point of ST (includes new art) the Core set should go for around $35 at most. That makes good sense. The other option for FFG is not selling them at all.

I could see a refill of all core set cards (one of each) being available at $40-50. That's not entirely unrealistic.

Tokhuah said:

Everyone who really wants three copies will eventually give up and just buy them (just as I gave up and started buying the old APs again... )

I don't think my math isn't wrong. When you look at any of their products, reprints or new cards there is nothing that I found that breaks down to less than $0.22 per card. Did you find something that does otherwise? I didn't look at every product.

I have an ex that works in a printing company. The card stock, multiple colors, UV finish etc, that the cards have, plus the boxes, distribution etc, really puts the profit point at about $0.10 (so she says, I don't understand half the stuff she babbles about work). I think what she was saying there is that it takes at least ten cents to break even (or maybe it was nine cents) with everything over that as profit. If they are doing that, then 12 cents profit for card makes a lot of sense.

They also need to price the addendum at a price where it encourages players to actually buy the Core Set for their first purchase rather than it. That pretty much guarantees that it would be costed at 50-75% more than a single Core Set, so MSRP would probably be $60 or more.

I mean this part I get because it is Business 101. You don't create a competing product that drives down the sales of your front line product. Everything you produce in that line you want to drive up the sales (directly or indirectly) of your flagship product.

At that price, you are still better off buying two core sets from a super cut-rate online retailer.

store.fantasyflightgames.com/productdetails.cfm

The ST set allowed FFG to price the cards at a smidgen over .18 per card, full retail We have now reduced the price by .04 just by increasing the volume of the content. The x2 CORE deal would continue to move volume up. Remember, unlike all the other sets there is no cost for artists or design, it is all gravy. Remove the packaging and sell them in minimal packaging (like the Death Angel expansion) to nudge the price a bit lower. FFG could require a redemption of one proof of purchase for one boxed Core set to be eligible to buy in this format if they really want to continue to move the full-on boxed product. With these things in place we can easily move the price down by another .04. Now we are at $43.40. NOW we are starting to get into the correct range of price for it to work for the seller and the buyer...

As it is now they are not getting any money out of my playgroup anyway becasue we sleeve with black boarder versions to fill out the x3 of our sets. And yes, we allow people to play this way at ALL events.

In the end we may pick up more copies of Core if we can find them in the discount bin or an ebay fire sale...

The real loser here is the environment, as in Gaia. By forcing people to buy the full-on box who do not have access to the ccg versions of the cards FFG is manufacturing a bunch of useless and wasteful crap that players do not really need. Sure, the Cthulhu models are cool, but all the other materials are just a waste of trees, ink, and other resources. The reduction in packaging would be nice...

Just one simple example. Dominion and/or Thunderstone --> how many cards does the base game contain? how big a box? How much does it cost?

Yeah, core Thunderstone comes with over 500 cards. Not bad quality, either. They feel really solid (and very hard to shuffle .

Board game cards are completely different issue. Different paperstock, different product line so they are bound to have a both a different price point and profit margin in regards to what kind of budget they can get per product. Not to mention the printing is different (different coatings, different design will cause for different kinds of bleed and print, and the smaller card size would allow you to get far more on a single sheet which means every sheet gives you a bigger bang for your buck.

And where are you getting a second $0.04 reduction in price? I'm not seeing anything that supports that. As to this being due to the volume of printed material... how many units is FFG moving right now of CoC stock? How many units are they printing at a time? Are they printing 15K international or 25k? Is everything coming from China/India/SE Asia from the same printer or are the EU cards being printed by a "local" printer that their international partner has a contract with?

These are all basic questions that need be answered before you can even begin to guess at what the cost reduction is going to be for a reprinted product. And you still haven't really addressed three of the most important questions, what is in it for FFG, is there an actual demand for this product that is not currently being met, and how does this prevent them from undercutting the flagship product for this game?

Who is running this proof of purchase plan of yours? The distributor? The FLGS? How are online retailers supposed to do this? Such a program itself would serverly eat into any possible savings because the manhours and tracking/verification process would almost certainly be passed on to the consumer by the middle or front-end (read distributer or retailer).

I'm sure that a company as successful as FFG has looked at this. Either they decided it did not meet their requirements (either in the immediate future or at all) or it is something that is already in the works. They are the ones with all the numbers to determine how profitable such a venture would be, and they are the only ones who can decide whether it is worth it to them to do so.

Remember when the LCG started the distribution plan was 10x1 + 10x3, and with increased sales and international distribution it went to 20x3 with only a $5 increase (which with the numbers on the original printing should have been between a $7-$10 increase). So I am not saying it could never happen. I'm just saying there is nothing to currently support the idea that they would, and the arguments for it so far have been entirely unconvincing without hard numbers regarding how many CoC units of each AP and expansion are being printed and how quickly they are selling. That there are reprints of older AP's at all is a very promising sign, but I imagine any core set supplement will be based on how well these reprints do. If they move quickly and show a nice profit, FFG may be convinced to try something new and different.

Tokhuah said:

This and the precedent that the larger deluxe set reduced the price from the AP.