On page 24 you can read:

"Some enemy and location cards award victory points
when they are defeated. When such a card leaves play,
one player should place it near his threat dial to remind
the players of the victory points when they are scoring
at the end of the game."

and on page 20:

"defeated enemies are
placed in the encounter discard pile"

So, where you think we need to discard cards with victory points?

Near a player or back in the encounter deck?

the logic says that encounetr cards are placed on the encounter discard pile except from those that have vp on them . these are kept by a player beside his her threat dial

micheni

Or could track it with a die, on a piece of paper etc.

Toqtamish said:

The issue is, if the discard pile gets reshuffled into the encounter deck, do defeated VP enemies/locations go back in as well or do they remain apart? Would be an added incentive to go for the kill if it's the latter.

edit: double post

Pikko said:

I'd say that in either case they're effectively in the encounter deck discard pile, even if not physically in said pile.

When I read that, I guessed that the card with a point value are set aside so that players can only win their points once. It made sense at the time, but now I don't know how much difference it would make.

From what we have seen, the cards with Victory Points are particularly nasty foes. My interpretation was that, unlike normal encounters, once you dealt with them, they were gone for good. Both in terms of game balance and narrative, they don’t recycle. You may have to carve your way through a slew of Goblin Snipers and Dol Guldor Orcs, but you only have to kill Cheiftan Ufthak once.

It makes sense that they don't recycle and keeps with the whole thing that there can't be 2 Aragon's in the game. I think when I play, the card with a VP value won't be added to the discard pile to come out again. Once you have killed Cheiftan Ufthak, he can't come back to fight you again.

The rules state on p. 24:

"Some enemy and location cards award victory points when they are defeated. When such a card leaves play, one player should place it near his threat dial to remind the players of the victory points when they are scoring at the end of the game."

I think this states more or less clearly that the cards are not placed in the discard pile, but next to a player's threat dial. Although I have to admit, that it could be a bit more explicitly stated to remove any doubts. But as said, I think that it would also fit the concept of the game to not recycle these kind of uniqe enemies or locations that give VP.

Speaking of which: Are locations also normally recycled when the encounter deck is reshuffled? Would seem kind of strange to travel to the same location twice in one game...

It can be done though, you can visit the same place twice.

I agree that the creatures with VP should not be used more than once.

Toqtamish said:

Plus: not all locations are unique (like Forest Gate), and some represent pretty big regions (like Gladden Fields). So I have no issues with travelling to the same location twice.

Having to kill Ufthak twice doesn't make sense though.

If victory point enemies truly are meant to be placed in a limbo of no return, I'd suggest that it be clarified as such in future errata. As of right now I see the placement as a means of facilitating bookkeeping rather than a separate special discard pile.

It's already in the rules

on p. 24:

"Some enemy and location cards award victory points when they are defeated. When such a card leaves play, one player should place it near his threat dial to remind the players of the victory points when they are scoring at the end of the game."

Toqtamish said:

If a separate "removed from the game" discard pile is indeed the intention, I would suggest adding the Victory Point enemy discard pile to the Suggested Play Field Setup on page 11 and errata added to the oft-quoted Victory X section on page 24 to reflect it.

Do you really need that in the picture to understand it ?

The rule on page 24 is very clear. Put the enemy by the players threat dial. Not sure how much clearer it can be.

Toqtamish said:

Yes. I like my instructions to have all aspects of the game listed as clearly as possible. That includes listing all relevant discard piles in illustrations of play.

Toqtamish said:

Most people will probably agree that's what the rule is saying, I think some people just prefer if it's explicitly stated when a situation contradicts the normal rule. If page 24 said, for example, "...one player should place it near his threat dial, instead of placing it in the discard pile..." that would provide something closer to the crystal clarity that some players like to have.

Seems silly to me but whatever. I would rather play than argue every little bit of tiny minutiae in the rules. Its a game after all.

And with this not being a competitive game, I think minutiae are a little less important.

Toqtamish said:

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Toqtamish said:

The rule on page 24 'clearly' contradicts the rule on page 20.

So, either the rule on page 20 should state that only cards not granting VP are placed on the discard pile and/or the rule on page 24 should note that this is an exception to the rule on page 20. That would make it explicit rather than implicit, and thus more clear.

Seriously, we know that is how its supposed to work so why argue over it. Sit down and just play the game and enjoy. I'm sure this will get put into the first FAQ just to shut the argument up.

I am really surprised that there are so many people bothered by this. Well, I have to admit it could be put clearer, but I don't think there is any room for doubt the way the rules are. Even it might see contradictory, from a point of logic the rule on p24 will have precedence over rule 20.

I don't care about the rules much anyway, I rather enjoy playing and when there are questions we can use the ffg forums. Nice to have them!

faith_star83 said:

Lets hope that LOTR forums will remain as friendly and mature as they are now cause you know what huppens in forums if a game is popular.Ofcourse this huppens more at video games and online games and i want to believe that things in the forums of a card game are different.