Hi everybody, while looking telepathic powers for my astropath, i noticed a few points that need to be clarified (maybe they already have, but i didn't find my answers using the search engine) :

- Does psychic scream ignore un-warded armor ? I would say yes because it is directed to the mind, not the body. As the bonus to soak damage is not specified, I assume it the Endurance bonus, wouldn't Willpower be more appropriate ?

- Does mind probe need an opposed test each round, or the first one is enough ?

- Does compel allow clearly suicidal act ? (i.e. does it allow "shoot yourself in the mouth" order ?) Player and GM can argue for quite some time about the notion of "potential suicidal act".

- Can reprogram be used to "cure" madness, by softening traumatic memories for example ? If yes, any idea to rule this kind of psychic surgery (I am currently working on one and your idea are welcome).

- Does sensory deprivation makes its target helpless ? (I experienced a partial sensory deprivation in a special chamber, it was very disturbing and made me pretty helpless)

Your ideas are welcome !

Xalendar said:

1. There's nothing in the errata about it, but I'd assume yes, it ignores non-warded armour and is only reduced by your Willpower bonus. Frankly, it's the only way to make the ability useful . Why it costs as much as an elite power that you can only get around Rank 5 baffles me. Though admittedly the entire career path just makes me cringe.

2. Only the first round. The target will know that you're ****** his mind for those five rounds though, better make sure he's tied down!

3. I'd rule that's more in the domain of Dominate than Compel and say the NPC would get at least a +30 to resist the effects, depending on circumstances.

4. I don't see why not. Provided the astropath knows which memories are causing those issues in the first place, it should be well within the purview of the ability to remove them. Possibly add a penalty based on the target's Insanity score?

5. Full Sensory Deprivation, definitely Helpless. Partial, it would depend on the target and the senses you strip away. I'd be inclined to say that a target would be rendered helpless if they were rendered both deaf and blind, but require a successful Perception test not to be considered as such if you only removed one crucial sense (sight for humans, hearing for dogs, et cetera)

My first advice and idea is, try to contact Sam (rules question to FFG). The link is in the bottom left of the page. Someone told me once and now I'm quite that button's regular; the answers come rather quickly.

1. Psychic Scream, IMO, ignores armour altogether. If the Psyker made a successful test, then the target entitled to make a Toughness test. This power also ignores Force Field (clarified by the Rogue Trader Rules Question)

2. Mind Probe, from my reading, takes 5 rounds to complete, and one single test (maybe at the end of the 5th round?). I might be wrong here.

3. Compel, IMO something that is 'clearly suicidal' at the very least must be 'potentially suicidal'. So at the very least, +20 to his test

4. Reprogramming to cure madness... Interesting. However when someone 'breaks' the reprogramming, IMO the Insanity points should bounced back, and get additional points.

5. Sensory Deprivation, IMO only render a target Unaware, not Helpless.

I think those are my ideas and opinions. Once again, my primary idea is to try the Rogue Trader Rules Question.

The equivalent mind probe power in DH requires an opposed WP test each round and gets an activation hike if you want to keep the target unaware.

Any suicidal action that you try to compel should grant a +30 to WP to resist. DH compel, and other powers, have this listed in the descriptions.

I re-read the errata and mind probe only needs a single test the first round, so no problem here anymore (thank you for your answer).

My question about suicidal acts and compel was not about the bonus the target has, but about what a "potential suicidal act" is. I am French, and even if I can speak / read / write in English, I sometime miss some subtleties . I cannot say if something potentially suicidal (could lead to death, but there is a chance it don't) include something clearly suicidal (will lead to death for sure). Depending the language there can be difference (I work on computational linguistic, so I have seen many of these subtleties in different language). We, French people, love to argue, so my GM and me (French to) have argued about what is potentially suicidal, clearly suicidal, not really suicidal, not obviously suicidal, etc. It was fun to begin with, but not to much anymore.

I'd say 'potentially suicidal' could means that there is more than 1% chance that the action will make the actor killed. English is not my first language as well.

So in that case, if the action can 'harm' him directly, that's potentially suicidal.

shooting your head, let's say it's 99% suicidal. put a gun on your mouth, and pull the trigger, maybe 70% (who knows, he put it at the 'wrong' direction). Shoot a person there, I'd say not suicidal; the action does not directly affect the character. shoot the 1200kg chandelier right above you, I'd say 1% suicidal. Jump of the cliff is suicidal, jump there depends on the height (but still can be categorized 1% chance IMO).

So IMO those actions mostly 'potentially suicidal', unless there are no obvious, direct, reactive harm will be befallen to the character. Oh about the percentage etc, I only make some random number to represent my personal judgment. Maybe in English language, the word is.. Common sense?

Maybe to avoid arguments, we can put a house rule that compel etc can only be used to 'harm others', or to make him 'inactive'?

But then again, those are just my opinions.

I like the idea that an astropath could say to someone "commit suicide !" and be obeyed at rank 1. It buff up the career wich is quite useless before rank 3.

I would define "suicidal acts", in this instance, as any form of self inflicted harm. This is a broad definition but I think it should be in this circumstance.

MY DH psyker got his daemon pact by compelling people to kill themselves over and over again.