Just to try and bring a final clarification to the thought that even people standing behind the navigator can be affected, I just now got a response from Sam Stewart regarding this:

Hi ***,

The attack should be treated as having a 180 degree arc. In fact, I'd
probably only treat it as having a 120 degree arc from his front. (So
someone standing next to him could avoid it).

Hope this helps!

With that done, I personally do not think the navigator should gain a level of fatigue for every person it affects, that seems to make it a one-shot thing. Granted, it is frickin dangerous, but I frown upon any design choice that takes a player out of the fight after using one spell/power. Giving an aditional level of fatigue for every target that beats the oppossed test with 2 or more degrees however, that I find kinda plausible. Makes it not the ideal weapon against a group of psykers, or other navigators.

I also got a response from Sam about the extra level of fatigue. Seems i had the opposed test wrong. See p 232 of the CRB.

Hi Koen,

Page 232, Opposed Tests, mentions that both parties can fail an opposed Test. Sometimes one must reroll to discover the winner, sometimes it simply means that both fail. This is up to the GM.

In the case of the eye, this should have been clearer, but basically the Navigator only gains the extra fatigue if he does not succeed on his Test. If he succeeds, but does not win, then he still does not gain Fatigue. So if he rolls over his target number by two or more degrees, irregardless of anything else, then he gains the extra Fatigue.

Hope that helps!

Sam

Wow. Thanks to Sam Stewart!

All this stuff seemed pretty clear to me to begin with. I had not realised that so many different people had so many different understandings of those rules! Happy to see my interpretation was correct.

Best of luck to you presenting your findings to your GM.

(On a related note: I love my Navigator and I love my GM! )

Simple way to win: Look at the other powers and how they work, every power talks about line of sight, or looking into the eye, and a few even say, "In an arc in front of the Navigator." The whole point of the Navigator's eye is that it focuses the powers he/she has. The Navigator isn't just unleashing Hell, he is focusing an attack; there is at least one power that really says it uses the flamer rules for range and such (Immolate the Soul at Adept level is a flamer for range and damage and at Master is a Heavy Flamer, page190 Into the Storm). Example, page 191 in Into the Storm, under Scourge of the Red Tide, "...the Navigator calls upon the full fury of the warp and brings forth a scouring tide of warp energy that jets forth from his fully-opened third eye." Notice, the from . And using the rules for the power, it states, "...will affect anyone, friend or foe, that looks into the Navigator's third eye when this power is activated." page 180 Core Rulebook. Meaning you have to be in front of the Navigator, now I noticed you said your GM is too lazy to use direction, but he needs to. We do in my games and its stupid not to, it ought to be implied, which is why it isn't mentioned in the book for foot battles. But read the vehicle rules in Into the Storm and ship combat rules, they all deal with facing, why wouldn't foot combat? Oh and the description of Lidless Stare states, also page 180 CR, "...anyone gazing into its depths will witness the power..." and look at the Held in My Gaze power, it says if the target moves out of line of sight, meaning behind an object or even behind the Navigator the power ends.

It sounds like your GM is just being a jerk because he saw how awesome the power really was and got upset that y'all messed up his little plan of being swarmed by orks. His argument is dumb. It's a freaking eye, in the center of his forehead, if he can't control the flow of the warp from pushing into his brain and out of the back of his skull the Navigator would be dead a long time ago. And he has to open his eye too, remember that point; meaning his skin holds back the power of the warp, there is another point that should help you win. And more than one power talk about opening the eye partialy or slightly and the like, meaning the Navigator is in control of the flow of the warp. Also the very fact that your Navigator got the power to Master should count for something, honestly, a novice might not be able to hold it from blasting out the back of his skull, but a master?? Really? You GM is just a sad guy who just caught on to how awesome Navigators can be. He just needs to pit you against better enemies who can counter act the powers, like other Navigators, lol.

By the by, if your GM doesn't have Into the Storm shame on him, lol, just kidding but it is awesome and he needs to pick it up because it would end this argument in a few seconds. If he doesn't have it point him to this post, he'll learn a thing or two.

Edit: And if, "There is no facing," as your GM seems to think for some unknown reason, then your party ought to have been hit by your flamer too, and when that Ork tossed a bomb, it should magically hit everything around him in a 8m circumference as it split in all directions simultaneously since there is no facing there is nothing controlling the direction he tossed it, after all he was facing all directions at once. And it is impossible to use a terminal, as you are both facing it and not facing it at the same time, so all tech-use checks which require interaction (and by definition facing) fail, instantly. If I can’t sneak up on you while you are on a computer because you are facing all directions at once then your GM has put a flaw in the system, and if I’m not mistaken there is even an example of a skill being used (let’s be crazy and call it sneak) where the character sneaks past a guard while his back is turned in one of those side bar examples?

I'm pretty sure helmets aren't supposed to cause Navigators any trouble with their eye powers.

1) It's quite clear that having Armour Points for the Head location does not mean that the whole head has to fully covered by the armour. Look at the illustrations of the Oathsworn Bodyguard, Eldar Corsair, and Ork Freebooter in the book; they all have armour points for the head location while clearly not covering the location where the navigator has his eye with the armour.

2) Given how lethal it is to get shot in a location without armour, this is a huge nerf on navigators and if true would have been mentioned in the book.

limxophobiac said:

We generally make 'custom helmets' an available option for Navigators. My own navigator often wears masks and helmets with bullet-proof glass openings for the third eye, or mechanical shutters. Or, has something like a xeno-cowl which he can just pull back as a free action in order to blast people with "the medecine."