Can some one help clarify what I'm looking at with the cards.

The Battle Grenadiers and The Gunners figures match the cards they are for. The way I think I understand the Extra ("bonus") Figures for the boxes, for thePanzer Killers and Bot Hunters is that you substitute a figure from the basic unit configuration of Battle Grenadiers and The Gunners with the extra figure and then you have the new unit of thePanzer Killers and Bot Hunters.

But the problem is that some of the pictures of the minis on the cards for thePanzer Killers and Bot Hunters do not match any current minis.

I don't think I'm understanding anything wrong. I think Fantasy Flight or the designer f'ed up. To be honest I'm kinda ticked off. I thought we were supposed to reference the picture of the unit on the card to know what figures to use with the unit and be able to have the proper number of weapons allocated.

In detail it works like this:

Battle Grenadiers converted to Panzer Killers. I need to remove the two figures with the Panzerfaust and replace with a Panzerschreck and a unit that only carries an StG 47. But there is only the the Panzerschreck to replace those 2 figures with. If you look at the front and center of the Panzer Killers card the missing figure is a figure in a completely diffrent uniform and pose than any other available.

The Gunners converted to Bot Hunters. Well this one is easy to explain. Just look at the cards side by side. The figures on the bot hunters card (becides the one it comes with, the m9 bazooka) don't exist. It's like Fantasy Flight took the figures fome the Gunners cut off the UGL's gave them all new heads and called it a new unit.

WTH...

I was pretty frustrated by this as well. There's a fix for the Germans if you have the base set and don;t mind doing some head swaps and pulling off some weapons. I can't remember what it was, but I think I pulled a Panzerfaust off the back of one of the Recon Grenadiers and swapped his head with a head from my new set of Panzer Killers.

You can't really do the same with the Bot Hunters. The UGLs are part of the gun, and I can't cut them off without also cutting of hands and wrists, which means re-sculpting. Not exactly as easy as swapping out one model. Fortunately, I like the Gunner squads better anyway, because I think its a good mix of anti-tank and anti infantry power.

I just use the pazerfaust ones anyways I will later take convert the ones I want but for the game reason it doesnt really matter just remember you dont have the panzerfaust in the squad. and if your worried too much just yank the one off the back of on model and replace the other with the panzershreck. Unless you want to leave them as they are

I guess the thing that bothers me the most about it is not just the fact that it has to be customized. But the culmination of this and other issues, like problems with the tanks that have come up & the quality of the cardboard and how badly it warps for example.

I honestly expected more from FFG. It seams like most of this stuff was rushed out and quality control was giving the day off. Did anyone play test stuff and make sure it was all accurate or did they just take Parente's word that is was good to run with.

well some of the figures in the picture are not release yet they are part of the command squad and in their defense think about it they just came out with a box of guys that comes with 1 extra rocket launcher. If they came out with another box of guys completely seperate form the gunner or battle grenadier box for the bot hunter and panzer killers ppl would complain about why didnt they just release the one extra model in the other box like they did. So its prob a win/loss for them anyways on complaints. I personally dont think its a big deal.

arkangl said:

Ahh well this is a good valid point.

My point is this though...(completely rhetorical question): If the single figures are supposed to be intergrated into the units that they come with, and replace an existing figure, and we are supposed to use the pictures on the units cards as reference; then why did FFG use figures that are not available for the units picture? It would have made more sence to not mix it up.

Now if there is some sort of official rulling on what is to be done with the single figure, that I have not been able to find, that makes me completely wrong, then I would love to see that. That's what I'm looking for. The solution of removing figures heads replacing with others and rebuilding them so it's the way it should be is not acceptable for something of this cost.

One of the selling points of the game was the fact that this is not (supposed to be) a typical minitures game, where things, like rules and minis and such, need to be tweaked with. It is supposed to function straight out of the box. The fact that things are starting to pop up so early in production is better then later, I suppose. Hopefully they will continue to iron things out.

I had high hopes of collecting this and playing with friends that I could not interest in AT-43, due to it's complexity.

My guess is the reason they added the figure is to promote the next expansion which at the time of their release was Cyclone and because it looks cool to do it.

I sent my question to the questions section of customer service yesterday. If I get a reply I will update it here.

If I don't hear from them I guess I will call them in a couple of days.

I looked everywhere for official rules on how to assemble the units Panzer Killers & Bot Hunters. I cannot find one.

Well several days later and contacting FFG has got me no reply. Why have a customer service section where people can ask about game rules if you never get back to them!!??

So I decided to go to the source and I sent a message to Dustgame.com.

A couple of hours later...

"Dear Jeff,

These units are an exception to the "what you see is what you get" rule, we are sorry for this.

The units are assembled by replacing a normal trooper by the extra heavy weapon and vice-versa.

In the "Premium" version the units perfectly match the picture from the card, but for the monochrome we just did our best to offer the best deal possible to our customers, not forcing them to buy two very similar squads.

Regards,

Clement Boen"

Funny, I just had Clement answer a question for me. I have found that Dustgames responds rather quickly to questions. I would imagine as FFG is more a distributor and support many games it may take them a bit to track down the correct answer.

Thanks for sharing your anwser, as I was wondering the same thing a month back or so.

-Jeff

P.S. nice name Avidhunter

I am sorry but this is WRONG. They made the Base set figures to "save us" money as this unit looked to much much like a unit they already released? Really? Once again, sorry but this does not fly. To add salt to the wound the Deluxe set does get what is pictured but does that not contradict what we are told (those of us who own the Base set?).

I have purchased everything that has been released for the base set (and two of the starter sets to have a bigger army) and after hearing this I am very upset. I am very sad to hear this news and I for one will be seeking answers as to why our units are not the same and just how many other things we will not be getting with the Base versions. I understand that an answer was provided about the units but I hope that if enough of us write in that they may look into doing a Base version of these units later (I know, I know, but I have to try as I feel cheated and it is WRONG).

I do not know about you but I really like this game. I like it so much so that if I am going to be missing out on units and who-knows-what just because I buy the Base set, I think I would rather just stop. IF you are going to change things because we are buying the Base set, LET US KNOW! This is the kind of mistake that I can see people telling each other about and to stay away from the Base set (which is sad and truth be told, IF I knew this from the start I would have passed on). I do not and will not support a company that changes things just because I did not buy their Deluxe version without saying a word until such a unit is issued and then tells us "We are doing to save YOU money.".

I now can only hope that we will see the Base set of these units and all other things to come. I still am finding it hard to believe that anyone would think it is OK to change the Base set from the Deluxe set as the Deluxe set does not come out painted from the molds. Silly kids, Trix are for rabbits!

Game on;

-John-

johnwiser said:

what UNIT are you unable to get , because as far as i know , the only thing different between what people who bought the BASIC edition , versus the DELUX edition , was the SCULPTS used .

i suppose they could have just skipped providing the extra card and figure , and sold the regular gunner/battle swquads , THEN to screw players , a couple months later , after players had already bought the gunner/battlesquads announced and sold the bot hunting squads so that players had to spend ANOTHER $15 . to buy the new squads , rather than just making a cool option available available so that players could have either for just 4$ more .

i for one like this game enough , that i can EASILY get over a slight dif. in SCULPTS , in one squad type , but hey if knowing about a dif sculpt in a unit between set types is enough to have stopped you from getting into the game , might i suggest you sell it , i am sure there are plenty of people who would gladly buy it from you . you can get your money back , and spend it on any of those other games that plan , produce , distribute , sell , and support their games PERFECTLY , without any flaw or hickups ................................................................................................................................ though i cant think of any game companies like that .

and before anyone starts screaming that i am telling people to leave , i am not . the community thrives with every player we have , no matter how we get along , but if something this minor is enough to make you feel so bad , maybe its not the game for you , and thats for you to decide .

you seem to feel as though DG , AEG , or FFG , made sets or figs or plans to screw you , and when i think about that notion , i remember back to the shift between first and second ed WH40k when they changed the vehicle damage rules , and as a result made players buy a new "vehicles manual" that had all the rules and data diagrams you needeed to play vehicles , for $20 (min. wage was like 3.15 an hour back then ) and less then 6 months later they completly changed the vehicle rules AGAIN , making the book they made players buy in order to play usless which only makes it feel worse when you realise how much planning big games companies do , so even BEFORE they were forcing players to buy those new vehicle rules manuals , they already knew they were going to completly change the system and screw the players over ........................................................... kinda puts an issue of a few SCULPTS in perspective .

i'm with kris on this one. that was a pretty heated diatribe over a single sculpt that has nothing to do with the performance of the unit. get over it, it was one simple mistake.

I am very unhappy with how these units are now being released as shown on the card ONLY by way of the Deluxe set and to make matters worse being told that it was done to save us money. I would have rather waited for this unit to come out as shown on the card, as I can tell you that the Deluxe set did not come out of the mold fully painted. Bottom line, easy fix is to offer these to those of us who are willing to pay for it (and maybe, MAYBE letting us know that these units will be released at a later time as shown on the card). I now feel that buying the Base set is getting the leftovers of the Deluxe set.

I do not know about you but when I made my purchase of "Dust Tactics" it was not free. As a matter of fact it was well over $100 in which I was happy to invest seeing that the only thing I was not getting in that of the Deluxe set was the painted units. Is it that big of a deal that we do not get the same sculpts? Yes, I believe so and am sad to hear how this is being done. I think everyone, EVERYONE, who purchased the Base set was under the same impression that the only thing that the Deluxe set had up on the Base set was that of the painted units (which would also include the decals). Now we are finding out that this is not so.

Now I am scared to see what other units we will not be getting for the Base set because of "saving us money". I am sorry but I understood that buying future expansions was going to be a must if I wished to continue on with the game and would like to know where it was stated that the Base set would not be getting the same sculpts and the Deluxe set?

Bottom line for me is that I fully enjoy "Dust Tactics" and am very sorry to hear that since I went with the Base set that I will not see all of the units as shown on their cards. Call it what you may but it is not right and I for one hope it gets corrected.

Game on;

-John-

Guys, I'm not going to be too popular on here when I tell you this, but I just opened my gunners box, fresh from the states and my extra bazooka trooper is an alternate sculpt.

I've opened the battle grenadiers and it's the same for their Panzerschreck.

Leaders aren't alternate sculpts, but it doesn't bother me that much. Time to go and blow up some robots!!!!

John - I understand why you're pissed about this mate. In the case of Dust Tactics, I'm now addicted to the game and am not too bothered about this particular issue, but if it was a game where my primary interest was collecting the minis, then I'd be annoyed. Best of luck getting it remedied, but I sincerely hope you don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the game.

Red

johnwiser said:

nope , wasnt free for me , i have 2 base starter sets , and some extra unist and walkers . have spent probably $300-400 on other game pieces for home based unit rules for airplanes and tanks and such . have spent probably another couple hundred on supplies and tools to make terrain and . have spent a ton of time gridding off 6 sheets , and maaking terrain and even my hell runner walker i have posted pics of over on BGG . so my investment in time and money goes WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY beyond just a starter set and a few squads , and its till doesnt matter to me that ONE unit in each army has dif. SCULPTS .

obviously you dont FULLY enjoy DT , or this wouldnt have upset you so much .

and unless playing with painted figs would ruin your life further , you mentioned being willing to pay more for the base set squads if you could get the extra figs , so spend the extra cash and buy the deluxe bot hunters .

or , heres another solution , sell JUST the bot hunters squads you got . nothing says you HAVE to buy bot hunters , the game is perfectly playable without them . i my self dont own any yet , and when i do get some , i will be fine with the alternate sculpts .

again , if something as simple as the dif. sculpts is ruining this game so much for you , then perhaps settlers of catan , coroscone , monopoly or some such other game would be more to your liking , and not upset you so much that its ruined the game for you to such a degree .

Red,

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I do enjoy "Dust Tactics" and when I get together with friends and family, "Dust Tactics" gets most of our attention. I really enjoy the whole theme of "Dust Tactics" like yourself and many others and hope we will see many new things to come (both in that if the Base set and the Deluxe set). Once again, thank you, sir, I do appreciate your kindness.

Kris,

I respect your enjoyment that "Dust Tactics" brings to you and yours, I think that is awesome (and I hope that your enjoyment will continue for as long as you have your sets). Forgive me for any insults that you took from my post as they were not ment to insult you nor your enjoyment that "Dust Tactics" brings to you.

I am very much a fan of "Dust Tactics" and while I disagree with how this was done, I would say my passion for the game made me do it (or may I blame it on my irish temper?).

Game on;

-John-

I don't have this expansion t o see exactly what the problem is but something has just occured to me, the body and legs are interchangeable could you swop these around to make the models fit the card, if not, at least they would look different.

Nah matey.

The heads on the leader models are the problem. Also, the Axis leader's right arm is raised. Now someone please correct me if I'm wrong, (pretty **** certain that there will be somebody!) but this unit was originally available on the Dust website in a different scale.

John - No probs mate. Tempers are likely to flare on here. I think we've all got to remember that the written word is a medium that can be very easily misinterpreted. People can type a harmless phrase, yet it can come across as being aggressive with very little difficulty!

Obviously if I type 'Bugger off the lot of you!' then that's an exception.

Now bugger off the lot of you. Get off my lawn before I get the hose!!!

Yes sir, I could have not said it better myself. My girlfriend would also like to add that it does not help my cause that I am very detailed oriented (you should see me when I read a book and then go see a movie that was based on said book...Shazam!).

As for the hose and your yard, sir, I shall return! I shall return!

Game on;

-John-

Finally got my Panzer Killers and can see what the problem is. The leader has a Panzerfaust that he can't have with the card, this could be confusing. As the model has it's gon on the back I'm going to try and cut outthe pheld Panzerfaust and replace it with his gun. Also have some caps from the Tamiya Panzer Grenadiers pack so will try to swop that as well.

Just swap it with a recon grenadiers squad. The recon grenadiers leader is holding an MG just take cut the hand and swap with the Panzer Killers. and remove the MG on the panzer killers back and put it on the recon leaders back and remove the panzerfaust on the recon and keep it for extras.

But that 'just' means I have to buy another squad, don't really want/need to do that.

No I just ment swap with an existing one recon grenadier leader unless youve already painted the exisitng one. I just ment swap hand and back mounted weapon except dont add a panzerfaust to the panzer killers. For the bot hunters I just chopped the ugl off

All I know is that this is a very well done game and alot of fun to play.

I dont have to spend a week just building the models before I play the game at all. The models are very well made and already basecoated and cost me 1/2 the price of comparable models for any other 28 mm sci fi game.

Frankly I can find nothing to complain about as of now.