Hi Everyone!

It's my first post here, and I'm interested in getting Rogue Trader. I have very limited knowledge of the 40k universe, and my previous RPG experience has been Exalted, Scion, Star Wars Saga Edition, Ars Magica, and D&D 3.5. I like rich settings and I like a good mechanical game behind the setting.

I guess I'm looking for what you like about the setting and system, especially with regards to the complexity in SWSE or D&D 3.5 (if you can speak to that.)

thanks!

Heavens, from the point of view of a gm who doesnt post often.

The setting is very rich and one of the main reasons I run a game in the setting, I would recommend going to any of the numerous fan or wiki sites and having a quick read to get a feel for the background. Rogue Trader (In my humble opinion) is all about the big scale empire building adventure's, sure you can get a fast ship, pretend your han solo and play lots of adventures smuggling tv's past the evil empire but you then miss out on the big draw of the game (For me). Deciding the fates of worlds, equipping armies with weapons, destroying xeno empires, quaffing with lords who command worlds and then getting back in time for tea and medals from the god-emperor is all easily done in the scale of the game.

Sadly I dont think the rules are that great, yes they function but they dont make me think, wow this is a great rule system and I really want to use it in other backgrounds, combat can quickly become bogged down in detail and the class system can be very limiting (I realise you can house rule). To get everything out of the game I think you need to get the rulebook and at least two of the other books (The players guide, battlefleet koronus) otherwise you might need to freestyle alot of the questions your players have.

Overall.

A fantastic background with a workable but clunky system that requires alot of freestyling from the gm.

I havent read or played the star wars game you mentioned so I cant comment on that and I suppose it could be similar to 3.5 if you were looking at high level characters that were commanding kingdoms from a huge moveable castle.

But in the end it doesnt really matter how you play it as long as everyones having fun.

about the setting: http://www.lexicanum.com/

Marvin and Gregor thanks for the info. I should note that I'm definately coming from the angle of the GM. If I get to be a player that's pretty exciting, because it's not often!!

Pros:

Setting: One of the best. It offers a lot of freedom, but because of the vast emptyness of space, it's relatively easy to guide players towards a certain adventure (though they are more free to ignore it, perhaps at their own peril). Players seem to like having the space ship, being important, intimidating people, but are still properly scared of Big Bad Xenos, the Inquisition etcet. The grimdark of 40k offers endless war, many opponents, and endless profit (or death). The Koronus Expanse (the region where the game takes place) is essentially set up as a playground where a GM can introduce endless adventures.

XP system: Improving a little bit each session is more fun for my players then some systems where you only level every now and again, and then either get a huge power boost or next to nothing anyway.

Gear System: Wealth is abstracted, not mere gold coins but also influence and standing. It's not a perfect system, but I like it better then most I've seen. There's a large power gap between the worst and best items, which really influences percieved power.

Actions have consequences: I find it easy to design adventures where PC's really influence one way or another the situation around them, without them being able to take total control and run amok. Mostly due to the Imperium being impossibly large and powerful, but not having to much influence in the sandbox.

Multiple "game modes." Rogue Trader describes battle between huge spacecraft and personal combat. (Corebook). Into the Storm adds vehicular combat, Battlefleet Koronus ups the spaceship scale (and complexicity, three new weapon systems, including fighter rules to bridge to smaller craft), and attempts to add larger scale ground combat (Though the RAW is not so good there, in my opinion). This varies up the gameplay a lot.

Critical Damage / Perils of the Warp - It may be me and my players, but having tables that roughly describe the gruesome way you or an opponentis mangled, or dies, adds a lot. I certainly am not creative enough on the spot to think of the dozens of ways described in the book on the fly.

Cons:

Classes are limited in variation within class. Chances are if two players play the same class, they're going to end up very similar.

Combat has a lot of modifiers. Skill, weaponry, range, Cover, dodge/parry, armour, toughness all come into play in most shots, and it may take a bit to learn the rules, and preparation to make it pass quickly. Over time players adapt though.

The system creaks at the high end, because for skill and weapon tests it's quite possible to reach close or above 100 on a 1d100, which turns into a lot of autosuccesses.

Sometimes it's hard to justify the PC's going into dangerous situations personally. They have bodyguards, soldiers and thousands of deckhands around them. 40k is very much a lead from the front universe, but even then it's sometimes hard to justify "startrekkin" an away party (IE send all the officers and a few redshirts, instead of a exploratory division of guards.)

It would be nice if more of the official adventures had maps.

Exalted is actually a pretty good analogue for the kinds of power level the PCs in Rogue Trader can wield. Even the smallest of warships in RT is as large and powerful as an ISD (if not more so). Players can start off with the lives of tens of thousands of people hanging from their very words, and the firepower to knock a planet back to the stone age. Their monthly disposable income would distort the annual budget of several nations (say, Belgium, Monaco and Taiwan).

Obviously, this sheer scope can present certain challenges to the GM (why bother to go down- we have thousands of faceless peons to do stuff for us), but it's worth remembering that this is a feudal adventuring setting, and no noble worth his salt is going to risk getting a name for caution/cowardice. Sure, when he goes to a planet he take a couple hundred guards and flunkies, but by God-Emperor he is going to lead them!

I'd personally disagree with SanderJK regarding the diversity within a class- the majority of players I've seen who share career choices have wound up with radically different characters at the end of it- Voidmasters and Seneschals in particular seem to differ wildly between every player.

Alasseo said:

I can back this up - a character, even if stripped down to just his or her most basic characteristics and traits - isn't just a class. It is a combination of career and origin, with strong variations in homeworlds, backgrounds and style. Even when the end result will have many similar talents or abilities as another character of the same career, the number of nuances will still make him feel unique. Roleplaying the personality does the rest. Added to this comes the option of transplanting Dark Heresy careers into the game, given that the systems are very compatible. And for what it's worth, I very much like the d100 system, too. It's easy to understand and makes for a rather fluid game.

I've just started a Void Master last week for my very first game of RT, and boy did we have "a jolly good time". I'm going for the cliché sailing age british navy officer approach which seems to fit nicely to the setting, and although I was a bit puzzled at first regarding the most suitable origin combination, the available options got me thinking for a while and resulted in the rather interesting concept of a former Battlefleet Leftenant who enjoys hunting xeno-beasts on the planets the ship will visit, but had to leave the Imperium over a noble feud.

If anyone wants my take on a "40k'ified Flintlock Pistol" , feel free to grab it. ;p

I only have two words: "Space Pirates". If that sounds like a fun theme to explore, Rogue Trader is awesome.

At first, when me and my buddies began playing Rogue Trader, we had the same issue. It was argued that in spite of what the text of the book said, you could not really get away with having more than 1 Rogue Trader, 1 seneschal and 1 arch-militant,

There were two reasons for this.

1) We were marred in old, half-complete understandings and presumptions about the game.

and 2) We didn't bother too much with the RAW as we're generally big on the golden rule, since there's a general belief among us that roleplaying is supposed to be a good story, and alot of fun.

This is by no means incorrect and I will always prefer a game where the GM does his best to make the game feel living, full of atmosphere and FUN.

HOWEVER!

Rogue Trader differs vastly from most other roleplaying games out there and both players and master would do well to keep this in mind when playing. If you go into the game in the mindset of say... classic dungeons and dragons storytelling, then you risk stunting the very essence of the game.

Rogue Trader is about freedom. That is the clearest way to define it. There is no such thing as freedom in the Imperium of man, but the Rogue Trader is infinitely closer to it than any other man in the Imperium and that should be taken into consideration at all times. The players forge their own destinies, make their own choices and work their own wonders. As a GM you can construct any kind of adventure, force anything upon the PCs you wish, that is your privilege. But IMO that undermines the spirit of the game. This is very much a game with a feel of cause and effect. The PCs can choose to explore the explored, daringly going where no man has stepped foot in millenia, or maybe ever! They may do so for any number of motivations, each adding immense amounts of character-driven roleplay to any story you should choose to play. If they decide to go where no man in living memory has gone before, THEN you can feel good about yourself when you throw a necron citadel at them, or whatever you fancy. I find that, that is at least a good line to go by. No problems in guiding the players along, throwing bits of meat and rolled up tissue-paper at them, to lure or distract them, but ultimately most of what they do should at least FEEL like choice. Like they are the moving force of the universe, and everything of relevance forms around them.

...Then once they reenter civilized space, suddenly they are 'just' another crew of freetraders. Peers of the Imperium, surely, but still caught in the suffocating, festering mass that is the Imperium. That gives the players incentive to DO stuff. Prod them, get them off their arses and into the yonder, but make it their own desires that drive them. Never be affraid to cut your ideas short and make room for innovative ****, that fits with events as set in motion by the PCs. Do this and you keep the spirit of the game alive and it will be one of the most enjoyable experiences you've ever had.

aaaah ^^ Such a lovely thing...ranting incoherently like that.

Now about tips that could be helpful.

Read the book. All of it. Not word by word, dont be ridiculous, but you need to give every chapter a skim at the very least, and you need to make the players do the same. This is the kind of game where the moving force is the decisions of the PCs and as such they need to know what the game allows them to do. Have at least one guy (preferably a seneschal) memorize the aquisition and upkeep system to an extend that he feels comfortable using it. Let the Arch-militant study up on large scale combat, and let the RT or voidies worry about ship-combat. Make sure that they know their options.

Get into the storm.

did you read that?

Get into the storm. You need it! Okay so it's not so ******* essential as some people make it sound, but it's still bloody good and the aside from providing lots of extra stuff to do, buy and see it also completely solves the so-called problem with the classes being too similar. I'll explain.

You may have noticed how everyone and their mom knows at least ONE person who cries rivers, every time someone brings up the careers in RT. That is due in large parts to the fact that some people don't read the rules in context to the setting, but mostly it's due to the fact that most people can get bent,. Rogue Trader has a wonderfully diverse system for character development and you should take full advantage of everything handed to you.

You can not only pick from the essential classes, but you also get the lineage-chart thingie that lets you shape your background. Then there's the fact that Rogue Trader is the system that enables and, dare I say, encourages it's players to go for elite-advances. The players are not the caste-bound drones of the Imperium everyone else is and they should be permitted much more freedom in terms of aquiring.... shall we say less than orthodox skills for their career.

Then there's Into the storm. Into the storm acts as the difinitive 'shut up' argument against most whiners, containing not only advanced careers made of awesome and ship roles (that effective shows how duplicate-careers coexist on any ship), but as if that wasn't enough they added xeno PCs... you know... just in case you were preparing some final desperate argument, as to why character diversity is lacking in RT.

Endeavors are your friends.

Endeavors scared my previous GM, to the point that she feared it would reduce the game to micromanagement and she plain refused to use it. Big mistake. Endeavors work wonderfully hand in hand with the aquisition-system and it should be used to it's full potential. Either that or come up with a sufficiently thought-through alternative in colaboration with your players, so that everyone is satisfied.

I can only advice you to play this game, because it is SO unbelieveably good, if used correctly.

Nearyn said it pretty well.

The thing I find with most people is they seem to have a very hard time wrapping their head around Rogue Trader due to how immensely huge the game actually is in scope and how much freedom the players have. Some people will not like this at all though, so be warned. Equipment is another thing that is different. You can basically get whatever stuff you want. Stuff isn't a motivator, power is the motivator. Power over man, power over machine, power over planets, star systems, and whole sectors of space.

A worthwhile goal for a Rogue Trader isn't to be rich, you already are. It isn't to be powerful, you already are. A truly worthwhile goal for a Rogue trader is to place 1,000 statues of himself each 1,000 feet tall, on 1,000 different worlds that no other man has ever laid eyes on and strip them to barren rock. So that when the Imperium of Man finally reaches that far they will tremble at the power and will of that ancient dynasty.

You are basically starting with characters that are where your DnD characters are when they retire to their own private kingdoms. Instead of retiring, they decide that a few million platinum coins in the treasury isn't enough, I need more.

As for the 40K d100 system, I find it to be flexible, fast, and easy to use, others don't think this way. The careers are another item of some personal preference. I like them, but then I look at them as flexible Archetypes rather than the restrictive classes you find in DnD, especially 4E.

My comment on class restrictiveness is based on the talent, traits and skills side of it all, the class not the character. And due to the mostly linear progression (Into the Storm does add some possibilities), the same class ends up with about 70% of what's available in it's table, and players tend to pick the same things. It was not a comment on the RP side of things, which is more varied, in part thanks to the Origin Path, which is a good way of giving people starting points for their character designs. A character is not his class, but a more varied class system would've been nice (I like both the Dark Heresy branching and the Deathwatch split of class and background xp tables, I would've liked either of those in RT.)

I love it mainly because it's very friendly to free-thinking players and GM's who don't like to play an "RPG on rails" like some written modules can become.

Besides that, the Rogue Trader concept is probably one of the best in the Warhammer 40k Universe. For someone who enjoys playing "Age of Sail" era games, this is as close as you're going to get to Master and Commander (IN SPACE).

Not biting you SanderJK ^^

Just wanted to make that clear, in case you felt like the target of my ranting last night.

Well guys, with your recommendations, and staring at the shineys at my FLGS, I've bought it, thanks!

Congrats, and enjoy!

Super ^^

Have fun mate ^^

Hmm... I'm being a bit late...

Well, I've played a lot of dnd (3.5, 4e) and Starwars (mostly Saga edition) and some of the whitewolfs, but recently me and some of my friends got attracted (and hooked) to Rogue Trader.

The main distinction here in this game, IMO is, that situational bonuses are mostly larger. So this system reward players with better tactical (rather than on planning uber-characters).

The downside, the system is rather 'unbalanced' in many sectors, but I havent found an uber character build (unlike other gamesthat we've played, where the system is quite balanced, but with a chance to create uber-characters)

Then again, maybe that's just me being me. Those are only my opinions. One thing for sure,we ARE having a lot of fun, and experienced several best sessions in our gaming life (well, mine is only 12 years though, so maybe our gaming life is not that long).