Hello all,

i'm rather new at gamemastering FF 40k roleplay, but i have extensive experience with running other rpgs (d&d, CoC, Stormbringer, whfrp 2nd etc etc) and know the wh40k tabletop game pretty well.

My problem is: how do you translate creature/adversaries profiles from the relevant codex to any of the roleplay games?

An exemple: in 40k a deatwatch expedition (the player was using regular marine codex) got badly mauled by a dark eldar riding force (these things happen in 40k)

Now, we are planning an rpg campaign that sees the deathwatch try and regain some honour by sending a 5 marine squad to recover geneseed/relics/equipment and kill the archon leading the xenos.

Now, in the said battle a 5 man tactical marine squad got wiped out in 2 turns of cc by an exceptionally hard to kill archon (for those in the know he had a shadow field, a ghost plate and a very killy power weapon).

Now, how can i make an opponent like this in the roleplay?

A very rough guide would be, probably, multiply by 10 the relevant stat, but i have seen this is not always the casr.

By way of exemple, marines themselves usually have 20 plus wounds, while they should have 10 plus if we apply this guide. Same goes for the tyranid warrior, a critter that's rather easy to kill in the tabletop game, but is a scary nihtmare in the RP (tons of wounds, lots of armour etc etc).

Do u think i should simply give up trying to turn the filmsy eldar into the equivalent of the punishment absorbing, damage dealing monsters they can be on the tabletop?

Any other suggestion?

Was a "profile conversion guide" between the systems (40k tabletop and any 40k rpg) ever published?

If not, is it planned?

Cheers, and thanks to everyone!

Eldar will never be able to take damage on 'marine-scale' by conventional means. You'd have to either put them in a horde, or ensure they have unnatural agility and a high Dodge skill, or give them some kind of holo-field with a flat-out percentage 'I ignore that' save.

It's worth having a search on net and on the forum, as there have been stats posted for Dark Eldar and a bunch of other stuff. Someone has also compiled a handy list of 'everything stated for 40kRPGs' and a list of sources.

We're also eagerly awaiting one of the forum's posters to post up some Eldar stats, as he did a sterling job of stating orcs.

Hi, and thanks for the suggestions.

Actually, now that i think of it, i could make the archon "a horde" by itself (i mean treat him like he was several regular eldar riders, after all he is 3 times more difficult to kill in 40k (and much harder to dispose of than a regular marine or a chaplain).

I browsed the supplements, mainly dark heresy and rogue trader ones, and found some eldar profile and rules.

Eldar field (75%) is a good way to represent a shadow field, but i could not find a suitable profile. I had a look at the eldar farseer

8its in one of the RT adventure) . Psy-powers aside he could do the trick, after all he has 30 wounds. I could make all of his locations like they are cybernetics (+2 t bonus) to represent grafts from haemunculis and the extra special rules and defensive ghost plate, same for vat grown muscle.

Still he could barely kill a single marine at a time, getting wounded back in the process and with the final result being decided by the dice.

I was looking to translate the killpower (and damage defiling power) the model has on the tabletop straight to the RPC, so, is SM are THAT though in the games, he should probbly be more like a daemon prince in power level. Hmmm...that does not sound half bad after all...

Another possible solution springs to mind: assassins!

Particularly drug pumped eversor assassins could work, as a DE archon, with an eldar field. Anyone knows if such officio assassinorum creations have ever been covered? Probably a toxic power sword would complete the kit, along with vat grown muscle and some subskin armour.

The problem of converting stats from the two systems in an effective way, however, remains.

After the group wipes the floor with the dark eldar (hopefully with several marines coming a hair's lenght of a truculent death), i'd like to pit them against other xenos. Tyranids were my first choiche but, exactly as the eldar fail to impress and capture the power of their miniature counterparts, the nids far exceed that power level. Well, the big ones, at least, up to the not so big humble warrior. By contrast, the gants are somewhat weaker than their plastic cousins. I dont like it, i wanted to capture the feel of a nid army like i field it. Oh well, i'll probably stick with the tau then. They seem more akin to their codex counterpart. Of course that's all IMHO.

Thanks in advance, cheers

There is no 1:1 formula for adapting tabletop 40K stats to the RPG- the best you can do is maintain the same relative proportions. So, to adapt a race/weapon/vehicle, I'd compare their Codex stats with those of other racesequipment that has been adapted to the RPG, and fine-tune it from there...

rzucchelli said:

Both the Eversor and Vindicare have been stated up in Dark Heresy Ascension.

The Eversor is created as an NPC profile. The Vindicare is a playable class.

The TT stats and various bits of 40k fluff are never going to be anything more than guidelines when making NPCs. Making them challenging to your players is a skill you are going to have to learn on your own through experimentation. Fate points mean that if you make an enemy too powerful and kill a PC, that character remains in play. You can give the fate point back later, though I'd suggest finding an excuse so the player doesn't realise you're doing it because the encounter was too hard.

Also note that most of the more powerful NPCs in all games come with traits that are unique to them. Doing so will allow more variety in NPCs than you can if you stick to existing stats.

Thanks 4 the answers guys.

I searched the whole FF library (turns out my group, between them, have everything that has been published to date but mark of the xenos), and found a reasonable solution for the problem at hand (concerning dark eldar, at least). I'll be using dark eldar warrior hordes (profiles from the purge the unclean supplement), and the archon will have the exarch profile found in the ascension DH supplement. It fits the bill, except for the ridicolously low wounds varlue. I'll fix that with the "feel no pain mutation" from the RT booklet ( plus 5 wounds for a total of 25), give him vat grown muscles for a nice plus one S bonus, and add some subskin and cranial armour just to round things up a bit. To represent modifications made by homunculi he'll have the equivalent of cibernetic arms, legs and hearth, and i'll swap the exarch equipment for a toxic power sword, an eldar field (75%), and a humble splinter pistol (cant wound a marine, it's there just for aestethics). I'll keep the 7 aps the exarch has, to represent the ghost plate.

All in all he could take on a marine, even a mildly experienced one, and come out on top. He is still very far from what a wh40k archon could do, but it looks like its about the best you can accomplish using just published material and not inventing anything yourself. Still i'd say he just makes, outragious equipment and all, for an elite opponent, certainly not a master.

I'd still like a "stat conversion table" very much !

rzucchelli said:

Will you be using the Splinter Weapons provided in PtU, or will you be swapping them out for the Splinter Weapons detailed in Into The Storm ? (Also, the Eldar blaster there uses dark matter, so it sounds like it could be a Dark Eldar weapon desig)

Also, when describing stat changes, just give the effect, not the cause, unless the cause matters. For example, say you gave +5 wounds instead of using the mutation. Your players shouldn't care and breaking that habit lets you customise things further towards your players.

rzucchelli said:

Of course the tabletop game may be playing up the smaller tyranid forms power and reducing their numbers to make the game more functional and more cost effective. Really that'd be the case all across the various codices and armies with some things scaled up or down purely to make a better game.

Bilateralrope said:

Very good suggestion, i had a look at the tables you mentioned, and i'll be using them. They capture the new dark eldar weapons in the codex a lot better.

Thanks 4 the tip!

Bilateralrope said:

I said i used the mutation because it comes with a decent talent as well

Anyway, i playtested the critter a bit, and it probably is around the power level i was aiming for. He went up in cc (we started rolling for surprise, then straight into the melee) against the tactical marine from the introductory adventure, and won 5 times out of 5. That's a good thing, as i need the players to loose some fate points in the confrontation. However many fights were long and bloody, with the archon evading blows (and surviving when hit due to cybernatics and extra wounds) and having to hit loads of times to bring the (parrying) marine down. He still is no more than an elite adversary, he struggles against powerfisted marines and cannot match even an humble tactical in a protracted firefight. However, i have to say, i had undervalued the power of skills that allow you to avoid damage.

Battybattybats said:

Hello, and thanks for the reply.

I am a nid player myself, so i am rather pro tyranid, but i have to say the stats in the core rulebook are just over the top (not like "regularly over the top", more like "through the roof" over the top!). The warrior stats, with just plus 20 to ws and bs, would make for a fine hive tyrant. The hive tyrant stuff would make a unique, larger breed of gargantuan carnifex, say a crossbreed between a carnifex and a larger bio construct. A regular warrior with over 30 wounds sounds far, far too much, and 5 points of chitin is more than enough. These are, in all likelyhood, the stats i'll be using.

I suppose that, as long as the fighty part of the profile is concerned, someone (FFlight?) could devise a method for straight profile translation, to be used with any creature, troop type or character. I dont think anything could make me happier than rpg critters straight from the codexes.

Cheers!

I'd give it a go before tinkering too much, to be honest. It's better 'out of the box' than it first appears to be. And although the larger 'nids are horribly dangerous, don't underestimate what a kill-team can achieve.

Siranui said:

I agree, remember that taking into account critical damage and all of his many damage resisting talents the lowest level space marine can quite happily take 35 or so wounds before he suffers anything more than -10 to tests... because he's a bit tired. and even that can be cancelled out by his pain suppressor if you count fatigue caused by critical damage as critical damage.

I think with that in mind a tyranid warrior is almost exactly where it should be. A hive tyrant can still easily be felled by 5 seconds of sustained fire from a kill team unless it is careful in its use of cover.

I think the biggest problem with a direct conversion is the fact that the RPG is so much more finely detailed. For example a strength of 4 on table top can be anything from a strength 43 Necron Warrior to a strength 47 space marine with unnatural toughness in power armour . the difference between them in the rpg is massive.

Another thing to remember when you consider how powerful to make your bad guys is that the marines in the game start with an average of 41 in all stats, which sounds about right for tt. but it is quite easy for them beef up to 60 or even 70 and strength 7 toughness 7 marines just don't exist in tt. all of this means that for me the best way to think about making serious characters like a Dark Eldar Archon is what would I do if I were playing that bad guy as a PC. well I would take an average Eldar, and probably have spend XP on all four WS increases, I would buy him any close combat trait I could etc etc and I would equip him with the most horrific combination of weapons I could get away with

Narkasis Broon said:

Hello,

thanks to all for the suggestions. Well, i think using a "basic" eldar profile and buyng profile upgrades like you do with experience sounds fine, but i think it would take a lot more work in obtaining the finished product. If we are not starting too soon i might go for it, but what I was looking was a quick and not time consuming way to convert profiles from 40 and mantaining the same power level. Looks like nobody has done that...yet!

Cheers