Mostly I understand this character, but something came up with my group regarding this. If a player places an aim order on Grey Ker, attacks and doesn't miss (ie; doesn't use the aim order) can he still switch his second action to an attack or move, or change his order type? I only ask since it appears he does get certain abilities on cards if he has appropriate skills (ie; battle cry) even if he doesn't use the entire stance that round.

Shatteredragon said:

No. By placing the order, he used up that 1/2-action. Whether he uses the Aim or not, he still placed it. He can't 'un-place it', just teh same way as he can;t 'un-attack', or take back movement that he has already made.

If he had declared a ready action, not placed and order yet, then attacked, he could still change the second 1/2-action to an attack or move.

Placing the Aim is what counts, not using it.

Thanks. I've only been into Descent for about a month and a half now, though I own all but the SoB expansion, having bought two extra expansions every two weeks after buying the first game. For a Dungeon boardgame I'm loving it, and since my players wanted to have expandable characters, I made sure to include RtL in my second expansion purchase. I used the weekly games to figure out the game mechanics and familiarize myself and the players with the game.

We just started our first AC yesterday, no encounters, and they did all three dungeon levels, cakewalked thru #4 Bridge of Death, one hero death (3 ct) on #8 The Warrens (I played this one badly not seperating the two sorcerers making it harder for the players to kill them), then got their rears collectively handed to them on #42 The Secret Garden with six hero deaths (16 ct), Nanok fled before I could get his last lifepoint, losing him to Ghost and the other heroes ranged & magic attacks LoS being reduced due to all the trees was a total bonus for me, and they were in the dungeon just long eneogh to get my last cards from drawing so I got the extra 3 CT there.

The heroes only got three copper chest draws, but with the CT and gold they made from this game the magic user is buying a skill and Nanok is upgrading a power die for armor increase. The other two didn't mention what they planned as yet. Final score first dungeon, first week, heroes 21, overlord 20, we'll have to see where things go from here. I noticed the bonus of only doing one or two levels of a dungeon during the first of the copper campaigns, and made sure my players knew they had the option of fleeing, but I don't think I'll hand them the easy (cost the overlord xp en masse) way out, if they can figure it out I'll have to deal.

Heroes are Runemaster Thorn (Inner Fire), Nanok of the Blade (Grapple), Grey Ker (Marksman), Silhouette (Eagle Eye). I chose the Beastman Lord as my Avatar and am running the Eternal Night plot. My players have already grasped the powerful use of setting guard orders and find it cheap that often when they all have them up I hold my critters back safe from range and magic. I'm not cheap I just know how to play the game heh.

This would be my second ever post but thanks for quick response, it wasn't my players thought, but a random one of mine. I found it easy to understand grey's ability but that one I would have let slide without a response allowing the player to do it if they thought of it. Now I won't, I can see how once an order is placed it is placed and like an attack or movement made can't be taken back and replaced. Most of my questions have been answered by doing searches on the forums, really helped me get a handle on the game and learn it faster with quicker clarifications. Though I see the dreaded monkey rule is still in contest here.

Shatteredragon said:

Note that Bear Tattoo has been removed from RtL (Telekinesis too) by FAQ.

FAQ pg13
Card Revisions
After careful consideration, we feel that the following cards should be removed from the advanced campaign.
Skills - Telekinesis, Bear Tattoo
Overlord - Poltergeist, Rolling Stone
Crushing Blow is now restricted to only one copy in the Overlord's deck. Yes this may go in the Lt.s hand during a Lt. encounter.
Spiritwalker is reduced to 5 spaces, not the 10 that is printed on the card.

I'd suggest you allow Nanok to redraw all 3+1 skills (choose 1 of course), and then just carry on anyway. Its not so big a deal in one dungeon to change the skill, but it sure is over the full campaign length.

I noticed that addition after it's affect apparently was overpowering in that expansion. I also noticed what the overlord had to remove and that Nanok's armor got a -2 to start. After much thought on the subject myself and since they are using it against me as the overlord I decided not to add this FAQ change for a first time play (including removal of overlord cards and other skills). For now it suits me, if I find it too overpowering with no balance for myself against them I'll remove it and the corresponding overlord and other hero cards, and I will make the additions when we get around to playing SoB. Honestly I don't mind losing this first game just to make sure my players get a handle on it, none of them have bothered to read the rules instead relying heavily on me for general info. I have taken to printing charts from the files on BGG and making use of them (LoS came in handy for helping them to get how it works).

Personally as overlord I hate the Grapple Skill and Nanok, but as a Player I admit I'd love to play him (though the new one hander on two hand melee weapons in ToI looks great too). I may pay for it first time around but if I find Nanok and Grapple too powerful I'll understand the later restrictions added in FaQ better and be able to get my players to accept his removal (actually getting to use the Falling Boulder trap might hasten that decision in one that won't end in complaints and arguements.

I am glad to say getting RtL gives me a chance to enjoy Vanilla Descent when we play it since we'll play out the rest of the dungeons when there's only four of us to play. I was getting tired of playing overlord against four heroes, the game is like easy setting for them, if I was lucky I'd get a death a game. We played thru the first and second dungeons twice and got to dungeon 5 campaigning before we switched to RtL.

Does Grapple really turn out to be that overpowered? I found that because the players relied on it so much that when they hit a level where Melee was useless and ranged attacks required constant line of site adjustments due to obstacles it turned out to be a sudden drastic weakness. Currently I am one dungeon away from upgrading one class of monsters to silver if I want to even if the dungeon goes bad for me, I noticed that getting 20 plus CT on the Copper level first dungeon was a big nono for players to allow (though they do work very well as a group), so I'm not sure how overpowered it might turn out when so many other creatures with it exsist in the game with abilities that can avoid or ignore grapple already (their first encounter with a Master Golem was a little comedic and they already hate the Wraiths), I still can't tell if it was removed because of overlord complaining or because it really is that overpowering in any campaign it turns up in, as for against Lts if I think for a moment it overbalances the fight heavily in the players favor I'll just give the Lts invulnerability against it. I have looked into it on the forums but other than a few complaints at how overpowering it is, how overpowering is it really?

Shatteredragon said:

Just to clarify on this point, Grey Ker "changing" his action does not count as "declaring" the new action. Whatever action he declared at the start of his turn, that's the one and only action he has "declared," no matter how many times he "changes" it during his turn with his hero ability.

Thanx to both of you, I know this is probably one of the more asked about hero's, but seriously other than the aim order question, the way it is worded made sense first read to me. I'll make sure the player understands how to use the abilitiy.