Hi all,

Twilight Imperium 3 and Shattered Empire have been out for quite a while now and this topic has been done in dribs and drabs in the past I'm sure. However for the benefit of the new players (myself included although I've got a good number of games under my belt now) I thought I'd open this up to share my opinions and hear from others as to what they use and what they think of the variants. Please note this is only for official variants, not shattered ascension or any other home rules (which whilst great I'm sure, are not what this topic is about). This thread isn't to establish what's right and wrong as the great thing about TI3 is that its so easily tailored to specific gaming groups- but I'm interested to hear what the current opinion is on each variant!

TI3 Variants:

The Long War

Haven't tried this one to be honest, I think the game is long enough with 10 Victory Points. However, this is something I'd like to try in the future once I have the luxury of setting aside a weekend. However as being able to set aside a whole day is something my group and I can only really do once a month I doubt this variant will see much use even if we do like it!

Age of Empire

This is a really good variant for new players to use and I'd recommend that all players use it for their first two or three games. It certainly speeds up the game and makes it easier for new players to work out what to do. However, once they're familiar with the game I'd recommend not using it. Not knowing what objectives are going to come up and trying to take them as they do adds a surprising amount to the game we've found and as such, if we're not playing with new players we don't use it. However, if we do have new players this is automatically chosen.

Distant Suns

There isn't much love for Distant Suns on the internet, however, I have to admit that my gaming group and I love them. Yes, they add time to the game but we always plan our TI games so that time isn't a factor and what time they cost in extra playing hours is more than made up by the fun of settling planets and not quite knowing what you're going to find! Sometimes it can be really beneficial, sometimes not so much and providing you use Territorial Distant Suns, the damage that can be done to you isn't so bad as to knock you out of the game. In my last game I got really screwed by then- the majority of planets had either hostile forces or hostile conditions which did slow my initial expansion- but if anything that can add to your sympathy factor when negotiating deals. I guess it depends on the gaming group but my one would always use this variant in Territorial form.

Leaders

To be fair we've only used this variant once before, in a 3 player game and to be honest we didn't think too much of them. We didn't think they were particularly bad, only that they added a fair bit of complexity without doing much and were fairly easy to forget about. Having said that, that was a while ago and I really want to try them in a larger game. In addition now that we all have the game mechanics understood fairly well I reckon we could probably put the leaders to good use.

Sabotage Runs

Cool for the Star Wars imagery but in practice we've found that the fighters are better kept as ablative wounds and not wasted. We don't use this one.

Shattered Empire Variants

Preset Maps

We use the FFG preset balanced maps for new players as they ensure that new guys aren't disadvantaged from the start and are therefore more likely to enjoy themselves. Once they've comfortable though we like to randomly generate our maps although some of the preset maps on the TI3wiki look like fun.

Variant Strategy Cards

Not much to say here. Easily better than the original ones which were quite ham fisted in their actions. We really like the Bureaucracy card over either Imperial Card as well.

Variant Objectives

Definitely use these as well, they....'encourage' player interaction quite a bit. I'm thinking of removing the duplicates from the original objective set and mixing them in for more variety.

Race Specific Technologies

Some races have better tech than others but only in such a way that it balances the races further. To be honest they add a nice extra to the game and there isn't much reason not to use them!

Artifacts

We really like these and pretty much always use them. The 'right' to explore them often leads to interesting bargains and deals being struck on a political level across the table as well as providing additional focal points on the map. It's surprising how something so simple can add so much to a game but we've found that they really do in our opinion!

Shock Troops/ Facilities

We like both of these. Shock troops are really quite nice without being too complicated and make Hope's End a bit more special when it's in play. They're not overpowered and whilst I've yet to see it happen I imagine it's probably quite handy being able to capture enemy PDS/Space Docks, Facilities we normally forget about so I would normally say 'include them if you want, they don't add that much'. However, since the last game I changed my mind as they really helped players in low resource parts of the galaxy compete later on- to the extent that we actually ran out of facility cards. As such, I reckon we'll probably keep using them as they're not hard to use and you never know if you'll end up needing them.

Space Mines

Haven't used these so can't really form an opinion on them. All I know is they're not well thought of broadly speaking.

The Wormhole Nexus

It's always nice to have an extra system to contest and being able to effectively use an alpha wormhole to come out of a beta wormhole (via mallice) is always good fun. However sometimes it's nice to know that alpha and beta are seperated from each other. We tend to flip a coin to decide whether or not to use the wormhole nexus but to be honest, there's no reason not to include it if you want to.

New Distant Suns Tokens/Territorial Distant Suns/Custodians of Mecatol Rex

Already covered this above, we reckon they're great for the reasons stated.

Tactical Retreats

This is okay I suppose but we usually omit it because there isn't much wrong with the default retreat. I'm not sure what others think though...

Voice of the Council

This is the one that I'm really not sure about either way. We've never ever used it but I am curious to try, however I can't really find much on the internet as to what people think about it. I'm not sure how it would work either...I mean rules wise it seems simple enough but how could you really exploit it? Surely if you're even in contention for top spot people would just vote the victory point away from you? It seems like it would add a lot of discussion time between players without adding much to the game? I'm particularly interested in hearing what people think about this variant.

Anyway, that's me done. Please add your thoughts below!

El Mariachi said:

Never used it and probably never will. It's not that I'm opposed to the idea or anything, but like you said, the game is already long enough at 10 VP.

El Mariachi said:

I definitely prefer to play with this one. The added ability to plan out my moves is welcome in a hostile universe. I can live without it if people insist, though.

El Mariachi said:

Distant Suns are not an option for us - we love them too much to go without! Sure it can lead to some really good or really bad starts, but those are rare enough that it doesn't really bother us.

El Mariachi said:

In my experience, most people around these parts just end up leaving their leaders on a homeworld for fear of getting them captured or killed. As such, there's not much point in using them, I find. Not that I don't like them, just what's the point of having a big gun if you never use it?

El Mariachi said:

Agreed. Mathematically, with the number of fighters you'd need to have a decent chance at this working, you could just have them all open fire instead and probably score more than enough hits to kill the WS, even considering other ships he might assign hits to.

El Mariachi said:

A fine idea,, but mostly wasted in our group. If we use them, we usually end up building them all in our homeworlds and then there's none left for other systems. Since we rare go after one another's home systems (without a good reason) that means space mines are largely wasted, like leaders.

El Mariachi said:

Tactical Retreats is a required rule for us. It's rare that we'll have a pre-activated system with enough remaining fleet supply to retreat to, so having this option makes retreats more viable for us. Maybe that's more the fault of the way we play than the way the rules work, but this optional rule is absolutely invaluable to us.

Some good reasoning in there Steve-O, particularly about the Tactical Retreats.

Have you tried Voice of the Council? Still trying to wrap my head around that one as to whether it's worth taking or not...

El Mariachi said:

I have used it once. It was claimed by a single player and subsequently ignored for the rest of the game, so that player got a free VP that he kept the whole game. I suspect that's not how most games go, though, so I'm not sure that experience creates a proper review of the card's effect.

We use Voice of the Council all the time. Sometimes it never changes hands, sometimes it changes hands 2-3 times. It doesn't add all that much extra time to the game.

I suspect we like using it because we also play the Long War and have always sought ways to make politics/influence more of a component. Voice of the Council and Artifacts simply allow for more scoring opportunities and create competition around these components.

While I'm at it, here's the full set of official variants we play with, in their entirety, in an effort to promote discussion and perspective:

1. Leaders.
2. The Long War.
3. Age of Empires.
4. Variant objectives from SE but no Imperium Rex or Four Ships... objectives.
5. Race-specific techs.
6. Tactical retreats.
7. Custodians of Mecatol Rex.
8. Facilities.
9. Homeworlds (home system ownership required whenever VPs are scored)
10. Artifacts
11. Voice of the Council

And, for those still reading, our house rules (version 41), apologies if this is wandering off topic:

1. Dreadnoughts: if undamaged, roll two combat dice in space combat. This does not apply to pre-combat effects such as Assault Cannon nor Planetary Bombardment - just actual space combat, only one combat die is rolled in each of these situations as per the normal rules. If damaged in space combat, the Dreadnought only rolls one combat die.

2. War Suns: require [3] hits to destroy; however, for each hit sustained, the War Sun loses [1] combat die

3. Home System Control to WIN: in order to be eligible to win, a player must control all planets of their Home System at whatever point in the game victory conditions are calculated. The player with the highest number of VP’s, and who also controls all planets of their Home System, will be declared the Galactic Emperor and Winner when the end-game condition is reached. *The Clan of Saar, due to their racial special ability, is exempt from this requirement.*

4. Three TI3-Base Strategy Cards: three of the original TI3-Base Strategy Cards will be used, SC#1, SC#3 & SC#4; the following SE-Expansion Strategy Cards will be used: “Diplomacy II (#2),” “Trade II (#5),” “Warfare II (#6),” “Technology II (#7)” and “Imperial II (#8)”

5. Pre-Set Maps, modified: when the players arrive, the galactic map should already be made, and will be made according to the guidelines in the TI3 Base Rules, with the Pre-Set maps as depicted on the FFG website used as additional guidance. No optional 4th ring of systems will be used. There will be a minimum of 2 empty systems. Pre-Set Artifacts will be placed in Known positions, evenly dispersed. There will be wormholes. All TI3-SE Expansion Systems will be available for use including Trade Stations, Wormhole Nexus, Hope’s End, Mirage, and the others. Places on the galactic map for “Home” Systems will be left open, or marked with “red” upside down tiles. Players will be assigned their Home System location randomly per HR 7 below. All participating players must review and approve the pre-set map before play begins, and before random Home System locations are assigned.

6. Player Abdication: should a player leave the game before the game ends, that player’s former units will remain in place, shall not move, and will defend only. These units will not be moved around nor will any new ships, neither ground forces nor space docks, be produced. Neither proxy nor simulated Strategy Cards will be drawn for the abdicating player. Trade Contracts remain in effect until broken, however no trade goods will be received by the abdicating player’s forces. The abdicating player now has 0 VP’s.

7. Race & Secretive Objective Draw: Before Game Day, a Proctor will be designated to randomly assign each player a “Draw Order Number.” Next, each player individually and secretly submits to the Proctor by one TI3-SE Great Race choice via e-mail, indicating the player's first choice. All submitted selections are then reviewed by the Proctor. All non-identical first race choices are immediately granted to the selecting players. Any of the TI3-SE Great Races chosen by two or more players are returned to the random pool, with NO player receiving that Great Race in this phase. All remaining players who did not receive their first e-mail submitted choice due to identical choices from other players, now go through the random draw for Great Races according to their assigned Draw Order Number on their token, and the procedure outlined in the following manner. Each remaining player will now be given by the Proctor four randomly and secretly drawn Race choices in Draw Order Number from the pool of all those remaining. The player will choose one, keeping it secret, while the others are returned to the pool by the Proctor. Once all selections have been made the Proctor reveals all choices by all players. Players may then trade Great Races if they wish. On Game Day the set of numbered markers are randomly drawn, and then randomly placed on the blank home system locations, which will now indicate each Player’s Home System location according to the Draw Order Number received at the beginning of this paragraph. In similar fashion to the Race Draw, each player in Draw Order Number will draw three Secretive Objectives, choose one, return the other two, and hand the deck to the next Player in Draw Order Number.

8. Tie Breakers and Scoring in the Final Round: in the event of a tie in the final count for Victory Points (“VP’s”), the “Imperium Rex” guidelines on page 14 of the TI3 Base rulebook will be used to determine the Winner / Galactic Emperor. Whichever full Game Turn (“GT”) / Round is the last to be completely finished through the end of the Status Phase will be known as the Final Round for Scoring. VPs are not scored in Strategy Card initiative order in Final Round.

9. Sudden Death Victories: any player who reaches [14] VP’s (for TLW) or [10] VP’s during a game turn (“GT”) instantly wins the game.

10. Clarification: The Universities of Jol-Nar and the Sardakk N’Orr receive (-1) and [+1] die roll modifiers, respectively, to their combat die rolls for all die rolls which inflict casualties; this includes Assault Cannon, Bombardment, PDS fire, PDS counter-fire and ground force invasion or defense.

11. Race Balancing: the following modifications are made to the Great Races of TI3-SE:

• Mentak Coalition : replace text regarding theft of Trade Goods with: “Once per Action Phase, as an Action, spend one command counter from your strategy allocation to steal, or ‘Pirate,’ one Trade Good each from any two different players for a total of two ‘Pirated’ Trade Goods. Only players with three or more Trade Goods at the time of the action may be ‘Pirated.’ If no 2nd player exists at the time to steal or ‘Pirate’ a Trade Good from, that portion of the action is forfeit.”
• The Winnu : the FAQ & Errata 2.2.1 version 3/20/2009 page 9 reduces the number of times that The Winnu may use their Racial Technology special ability to once per Action Phase (ie, “Round” or “Game Turn”).
• Sardakk N’Orr : receive one additional Carrier with starting units; replace text for Racial Tech “Berserker Genome” as follows: “At the end of the first round of every space battle or invasion combat, roll one combat die for each casualty you have suffered, compare each roll to your destroyed units combat value, if a hit is achieved, your opponent takes an additional casualty.” – Racial Tech Cost for “Berserker Genome” remains unchanged at [5] Resources.
• Xxcha Kingdom : change starting units as follows; add one Carrier, lose one Cruiser, add one GF, and lose one fighter.
• Yssaril Tribes : may only use the racial “Skip” ability while the player’s Strategy Card is active (ie, “face up”), once the player’s Strategy Card has been used (ie, “face down”), the Yssaril Tribes player may not “Skip.”

Wow, you guys are a lot more formal about house rules than we are. =P

Seren said:

Am I forgetting some obscure way to win? AFAIK there's only "reach the required VPs" and "eliminate all other players" (since you said you don't use Imperium Rex.) Victory is attained as soon as you score the final required VP and as such control of your HS would be covered by the usual Homeworlds optional rule. If you win by elimination, I should hope you've managed to retain control of your HS in the process. =P

Is this one just in case you decide to call the game on time?

Good question. The only other end-game condition I can think of is when we declare "Final Round" or impose the end due to a time limit.

Folks in our group are pretty die-hard wargamers for the most part, but even starting at 10:30 AM on a Saturday requires us to agree on a time limit at the beginning. Even when we set time limits some 12 hours into the game, it's not unusual for us to make a sanity check and blow well past the time limit in order to allow the game to come to a natural conclusion.

Some would say the imbibing of spirits makes our games longer, others may say there's lots of table talk as we trash each other's persuasive arguments to do this or that or vote a particular way. In my view, TI3 is a good thing and you can never get enough of a good thing. I'm always ready to set up and start over even after 14-15 hours of play. Jobs, kids, spouses keep us from ever doing that, but some of us often daydream about getting a hotel for a 5-day weekend and playing as many games of TI3 as we can in that period.

We're sick.

You're missing the Imperium Rex card.

If you are in the lead point wise when you have bureaucracy and Imperium Rex is one of your choices, game over, you win.

So the end game strategy for all players is; keep bureaucracy out of the hands of the leader.

We do not play with Imperium Rex or Bureaucracy, but one could choose to add those in and then, yes, you'd have another game ending condition.

DavidG55311 said:

That sounds a lot easier said than done!

Any tips?