Dogma79 said:

Good luck with THAT one

Look. What you do want is an concealed marker. The concealed unit is removed once you sstart firing.

Dogma79 said:

The use of balka's would be:

- they function as an anti-vehicle obtacle that can't be removed by engineers or crossed slowly (unless you feel very lucky)

- they allow units to advance out if sight

Nothing gamebreaking, but certainly not without it's uses.

well Latro that looks right if your in a balka you shouldn't be able to see further than the adjacent hex. or along a contunious balka hexes.

BJaffe01

that is how i will be playing balkas. both units only have LOS if next to each other

Aussie_Digger said:

me too.

KlausFritsch said:

Me too. Even if the "official" rule turns out to be different, one's got to use common sense.

Common sense should rule. I will tell you getting the Balka rule to where it is know wasn't an easy task. i suspect Wadi's is the Desert will also be a difficult rules undertaking.

BJaffe01

will we be seeing these in the future?

Aussie_Digger said:

Please, please, please, more North Africa, complete with Italians, pleeeeaaase!

Italians, what fun would they be? You need rules like

'If an italian infanteri is in line of sight with an enemy, they automaticy get pinned.

From the reading I have done it seems the quality of the ordinary italian solider was alright it was just their leadership and equipment (and later on wondering what they are fighting for)

Grand Stone said:

KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Great!! Very, very funny!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

truly the Italians where done in by bad equipment and leadership than anything else. for instance they produced less airplanes during their 3 years than the british did in an average 6th months.

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

And they did not really have much reason to fight, other than the imperial dreams of their Duce, that is.

They had no grievances (real or imagined) from the peace agreement of the last war (they were among the winners), and they were not invaded. Mussolini simply wanted to expand and jumped on the train of Germany's early successes, Once the going got rough, I guess that motiviation of the common soldier was the first Italian casualty.

Some Italian divisions, such as Ariete, actually have a good reputation. The Italian Bersaglieri and paratroopers are generally rated as first-class troops. They simply had no answer to the question "Why do we fight?".

Back to the question of the balkas, I played Meat Grinder over the weekend to see what all the fuss was about. I played with the balkas providing cover to those inside (blocking LOS) and enabling units inside to fire out.

This was the only advantage that the Russian units had in order to somewhat mitigate the advantage of the OP Card Elite Formations. This Op card is somewhat overpowered on its own but to throw it into the mix in this scenario with the expert token already available (I would have just used several of these for the German units rather than the Op card) and the reinforcements that come makes this scenario almost impossible for the Russians to win. If I were to try it again as written I suppose rushing every Russian unit into town as fast as possible would be the only solution.

Once the Russian units enter the village after running the gauntlet they are picked off too easily by the uber squads at close range. Lose this card and you might have a decent scenario - along with changing the Panther tanks to Pz IV's and III's or simply privde the Russian player with more infantry.

With several of the German units sitting in Op fire while the rest are available for firing as actions the Russian units that set up in the open are reduced to using their actions to fire only rather than risk moving as well. Until somehow the units covering their approaches are dealt with. The Russian player would benefit from dual mortars or more command to use the artillery Op card. Again the Balka provided the only advantage to the Russian player and the German player can simply cover that axis of advance and maneuver units to demolish the other two approaches. I felt the Balka rule to be a little gamey but I understand what was attempted.

A fix would be to provide "hull down" cover to units within the balka after they fire out of it. I would say no LOS to units that have not fired but once you fire out of the balka you are spotted but provided with significant cover - I'd say cover of 4 for both tanks and infantry.

Two things to do for that scenario:

I) use panzer IV aust E instead of panthers

2) give the elite formation card to the russians instead of the germans.

Grand Stone said:

The Russian forces weren't elite...

I agree on the first one.

Yes, significant cover in balkas would be fine once they fired. I'll still play that both the attacker and unit being attacked need to be adjacent in order to see each other (unless they're both in a balka hex). It seems the most realistic solution to me.

What about balkas and artillery?

Can I choose a balka hex as traget hex for artillery? My spotter can see the hex, even if he does not see the units inside from more than one hex away...

KlausFritsch said:

Common sense would say yes and I guess indirectly so do the rules. If a non-fatigued unit is within LOS of the target you get a bonus to your drift number. Evene better when there's an officer in LOS. I suppose you could even target a unit in a balka hex without LOS. It's just that you'd need to roll a six if I'm not mistaken and there's therefore a high risk of drift occuring.

Kingtiger said:

Keep in mind that "drift" only takes LOS to the target HEX into account, not to the units that might (or might not) be inside that hex. As long as the attacker has LOS to the balka hex, the chance of the artillery strike drifting is not so bad ... even if the actual units inside the balka are hidden from view.

If you can't see the enemy and have no reason to think they are present, why would you be wasting ammunition firing at random balka hexes?

I think it is quite common to call in artillery on suspected enemy positions Before they have the chance to deploy and be a threat.

longagoigo said:

1. Because the rules say you can.

2. " can't see the enemy and have no reason to think they are present " ... one of the roles of an artillery strike is to target areas where the enemy might be.

Latro said:

That's what I meant, but you absolutely said it more clearly.