I'm about to run a game with level 4 players - ranging from 4 to 5 people.

How do I know what's a fair fight? The Dark Heresy books is pretty vague about this. Some of the Daemons seem pretty much insta-win against the party with fear effects and I don't know how I'm suppose to know what is a fair fight for 4 level 1 players as opposed to 4 level 10 players ...

Any tips?

Hi there,

there is onyl one thing I can advise... practice! Seriously, start throwing things at the same. They do have fate points. If you "accidentaly" wiped them ( = forced them to burn fate points), make it clear to them that THIS was a tough fightaward extra xp. Then, you know where you are.

Go on! Jump into the cold water.

P.s: never..never ever allow the pc to outnumber an opponent. No matter how big. They will have him in down in zero time. Trust me!

Why fight fair?

Would the big bad be stupid enough to fight the acolytes on equal terms? Make them fight against powerful enemies who will utterly destroy them in a straight fight, force the players to be smart about taking down their foes.

If an example might help you:

I am planning a challenging "final fight" for three Rank 4-5 pc (a Psyker; a Sister of Battle in the new-rules-power-armour, a Guardsman). There opponents are going to be Dark Eldar. The pc will try to defend a positions (they have some time to improvise some defenses and traps). The Sister will be Bolter, Chainweapons and Servoarmor, the other will be wearing armored void suits (AP:2 and perhaps AP3 at the torso and the helmet). The IG will be totting a Bolter or a HE-Lasweapon, the psyker is a dangerous Biokinetic still totting an Ironclaw (Voidborn navy psyker) and an energy field he scored in a previous adventure.

As "fodder/basis", I have some DE Warriors. They have descend stats in combat, are well armored (AP:4),have high agility (45; unnatural 2x; for being Eldar) and are armed with Splinter weapons and mono blades. I expect them not be a big threat for the pc. While they have good armor and the weapons will harm, the pc might be able to dispatch them quickly. So, I will send seven of them after them.
It is always good to have some fodder, and for a real fight they should outnumber the pc 2:1 or 3:1 if the pc really outgun and/or outclass them

The fodder alone would ensure that the fight is not over in the first round, this would not be a real threat for the pc. They would mean harm, but the pc would be very confident to win the fight. Enter the specialists.

If you have one pc whose ability and gear outclasses the other, prepare a special target/opponent for said pc.
For the Sister of Battle, I brewed up and Inccubi (a close-combat DE opponent). This one comes around in a xenos plate (AP:6 all around) and an energy glave (gave it the trait and a PEN: of 6). The fighter is a real opponent (WS:50; ST:40; T 38...after all, he is an Eldar) and comes with some combat talents (Combat Master; Blademaster, Counter-Attack; True Grit; Crushing Blow; Furious Assault; Sure Strike; Wall of Steel). I would normally add Swift Attack, but the Sister isn´t into multi attacks yet and I want this to be her "duel partner" of sorts. He will call her "Temple *****" and will provoke her to take him on in close combat (despite pumping bolter rounds into him). I think the player will go for him, she will like it that way.
If you have one pc whose ability and gear outclasses the other, prepare a special target/opponent for said pc.

Alway add one or more special opponents to your fodder.
In this case, this will be a named DE who is not only some torture-master but leader of the group. He will gain some fate points (2), energy blades, two-weapon-wielder talents and crippling strike. In additon, he has a rather nasty special weapon. With him will be two tortured-into-painless-frenzy-once-dark-eldar that will mindlessly charge the pc. They will be quit tough (18 Wounds, Natural Toughnes 2x; Iron Jaw; Frenzy; Beserker Charge) but no real damage dealer. They will soak some fire, that´s it.

Think about a psyker
Always know his powers. Psyker tend to mob up weak human opponents with Fear or similiar things. In an important fight, think about something that will hinder the psyker for a while. But which will not nullify him. The later would betray the psyker players, somehow.
In this case, I decided that the named torture eldar has a veil with tortured souls with him that will both raise the chance for phenomena to 8,9,10 and will heighten the Threshold by +3. But only for 1d5+1 rounds of combat. On release, the psyker has to pass a difficult (-10) willpower test or will be stunned for one turn (plus another for every two levels of failure).

With all of this, I expect the combat to last for a little more then 10 rounds. I will take the regular DE out as soon as they reach zero wounds. The other will be "all the way with criticals". I expect one them to burn a fate point and to hurt the rest of them good. The will already be a little roughed up from a previous encounter with some warp beasts.

The encounter above sounds like it will be a blast, a quick question are Spinter weapons listed anywhere? Their TT counter parts are a poisoned weapon, are you going to be inplimenting that too, it's supposed to be a instant acting but slow and painful death poison. For one of your named DE you could use a Wych, fast like all eldar but a master of close combat, but wear nothing in the way of armour but is capable of dodging almost anything. The weapon your looking for that has driven the to minions of bullet dam soaking to frothing madness is an Agoniser it's a whip like device.

Could you let us know how this encounter turns out?

Did it meet your predictions?

As for sorting out Encounters, I have a low rank group, just coming to rank 3, of 5 players. They are on a Hive world of my own making, so I have had them attacked by gangers, I used the scum stat block from the back of the DH book with a Skulker as their boss, and hit them with 12 scum and the skuler in an ambush, and due to some good rolling my group ended the fight after 3 rounds with many of the scum running for thier lives from my greatsword weilding noble scottish guardsman Shiv MacTavish, as his first action was a charge followed by a rightoues fury hit doing nearly 40 points opf dam, now just because minions don't deserve critical hits there is no reason you can't embelish deaths, the rest of the group where systematic about who to attack next and with WS and BS skills of low rent scum being 23 i did as the GM a whoping 5 points of dam by the time the fight had finished.

I think the easiest way to plan your encounters is to work out how often you actually expect to hit, WS/BS 23 not very but you start with some of the more powerful monster/creatures and induviduals and you could get all the way to WS/BS 80 at which point they are going to be dealing dam pretty consistantly.

Never be afriad to try something, if it all starts going badly wrong have some help show up, even if it's just to take the pressure of your players, if you have a demon that is owning your players have a mob of peasants/gangers/arbiters even Space Marines if it warrants, if you have to use Space Marines to save your players don't have them stick around, no sooner do they land the job gets done do they leave, have a few of them killed but make sure the pc's feel like they achieved something, even if it was just getting the demon to come out.

I believe the stats for splinter weapons are in the "Purge The Unclean" supplement.

There's a lot of good advice in this thread, I always find the fights end up being too easy for my PCs, maybe it's a ingrained aversion that comes from growing up playing whfrp..... god the combat in that was brutal!!.

Bengal6 said:

I prefer the stats given in Into The Storm.

Valdek said:

Hi Valdek,

you have a friendship request from me. I will inform you as soon as the scene was played out via PM. But this will take some time. I normally only meet this group once every three weeks...and the adventure has yet to start (01. of April).

Back2Topic:
While choosing weapon and armor of the combatants, keep the pc´s weaponary, armor and toughness in mind. If the opponents do not have a chance to harm them, the players will become arrogant over time, disregarding every battle as something to wade through easily. If your npc are not armored well, you pc will dispatch them quickly. Which is alright, if you brought enough opponents to the fight (3:1; 4:1). Or if you plan the pc to cut them all down like wheat.

Keep the equipment uniformly on your side, and do the same with the combat talents. At least, for the fodder. That keeps things easy for you.

If you want to catch your pc a little of, insert things like grenades to the mix. Normally does the trick. But beware: everything your guys use, the pc will try to get a hand on. Perhaps right after the battle, as they loot the still steaming corpses.