Truong Pham " Phamufs"
Desert Wars
MarcoPulleaux said:
Archimedes said:
Lord of the Makai needs to be banned. This is the part where I tell all the people already typing "QUIT WHINING ABOUT BANNING! BANNING TALK IS NOT ALLOWED!" into the reply boxes to shut up because I actually have an argument and mindless banning complaints is what is verbatim.
The stated course of this game is to move it away from walling up and finishing in one sure fire shot. The stated course of this game is to encourage attacking over multiple turns. The damage from attacking is nice, but the momentum is what matters.
Why would I ever want to attack over multiple turns when the best/fastest finishers in the environment can be set up in 1 turn with Lord of the Makai? Why would I fill my deck with more 3 checks when they could be blocked/reduced to zero and not give me momentum when Lord of the Makai gives me momentum for free?
Momentum needs to mean something in this game. And at the moment, the concept behind it is
worthless
with Lord of the Makai in the environment. Attacking needs to be
the
premier method of generating momentum, and if any sort of momentum generation is to be put onto Actions, Assets, or Foundations it needs to be 1 shot, heavily costed, and most likely combo oriented (or at the very least, temporary).
I am speaking as a mid-high caliber tournament player. Watching decks in the tournament that could not run Lord of the Makai, it IS possible to attack over multiple turns to generate momentum for you, but if you drop into the top 8, you’ll see that 5 of them ran Lord of the Makai, and by top 4 every single deck had Lord of the Makai. It just makes tossing out the game ending Feline Spike/Lunar Slash/Ryu’s Shin Shoryuken too easy too early. And the three to four turns spent not attacking for momentum were spent building a foundation base that was made fully available to them by NOT having to run 8-10 extra attacks.
For the health and for the charted course of this game, Lord of the Makai needs to go away.
THIS! THIS RIGHT F'IN HERE! WHY IS NOBODY PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS?
I dont agree at all... there have been many other powerful momentum generators (Whereabouts, Power Up, Hop) in the past with no cries for bannings or whatnot. Yes momentum is powerful but I think this has more to do with brokeness of Feline Spike then anything. LotM is a very very good card and it is an enabler, but what is it enabling? O yeah broken cards like Feline Spike and Defender.
MarcoPulleaux said:
Archimedes said:
Lord of the Makai needs to be banned. This is the part where I tell all the people already typing "QUIT WHINING ABOUT BANNING! BANNING TALK IS NOT ALLOWED!" into the reply boxes to shut up because I actually have an argument and mindless banning complaints is what is verbatim.
The stated course of this game is to move it away from walling up and finishing in one sure fire shot. The stated course of this game is to encourage attacking over multiple turns. The damage from attacking is nice, but the momentum is what matters.
Why would I ever want to attack over multiple turns when the best/fastest finishers in the environment can be set up in 1 turn with Lord of the Makai? Why would I fill my deck with more 3 checks when they could be blocked/reduced to zero and not give me momentum when Lord of the Makai gives me momentum for free?
Momentum needs to mean something in this game. And at the moment, the concept behind it is
worthless
with Lord of the Makai in the environment. Attacking needs to be
the
premier method of generating momentum, and if any sort of momentum generation is to be put onto Actions, Assets, or Foundations it needs to be 1 shot, heavily costed, and most likely combo oriented (or at the very least, temporary).
I am speaking as a mid-high caliber tournament player. Watching decks in the tournament that could not run Lord of the Makai, it IS possible to attack over multiple turns to generate momentum for you, but if you drop into the top 8, you’ll see that 5 of them ran Lord of the Makai, and by top 4 every single deck had Lord of the Makai. It just makes tossing out the game ending Feline Spike/Lunar Slash/Ryu’s Shin Shoryuken too easy too early. And the three to four turns spent not attacking for momentum were spent building a foundation base that was made fully available to them by NOT having to run 8-10 extra attacks.
For the health and for the charted course of this game, Lord of the Makai needs to go away.
THIS! THIS RIGHT F'IN HERE! WHY IS NOBODY PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS?
because this is a thread about Desert Wars, not a thread about Lord of the Makai.
By the way...are there any pictures from Desert Wars? I want to see the Happy Holidays that wouldn't die, to be honest; I'll print up a copy and put it on the refrigerator with an amusing caption =D
MegaGeese said:
By the way...are there any pictures from Desert Wars? I want to see the Happy Lolidays that wouldn't die, to be honest; I'll print up a copy and put it on the refrigerator with an amusing caption =D
Fixed for trying to be relevant in a post-comedy UFS community. ;p
Also, Iga Legacy/Grappling for Glory is pretty much Happy Holidays, except, y'know, you blow up two foundations and you don't get to see their hand. It's generally a psychological effect that makes the opponent say : "Okay so I guess I'm building this turn."
NintendoMan said:
I dont agree at all... there have been many other powerful momentum generators (Whereabouts, Power Up, Hop) in the past with no cries for bannings or whatnot. Yes momentum is powerful but I think this has more to do with brokeness of Feline Spike then anything. LotM is a very very good card and it is an enabler, but what is it enabling? O yeah broken cards like Feline Spike and Defender.
You make a decent point, Grant, though some would argue that Power Up, Hop, and Whereabouts have always contributed to the 2nd-turn kill tendency. Cutting momentum generators would be one of the quickest, easiest ways to force players to build momentum by attacking over multiple turns. For a long time folks have been willing to send attacks to the discard pile rather than momentum for easy recursion. The banning of Military reduced that, but it's stilla round.
By the way, ACCEPT MY FRIEND REQUEST AND EMAIL ME. I don't have your phone number, and I want to get some folks together within the next month for a draft! Gameology tourneys haven't happened in over a month due to holidays/nobody showing up/I'm now in class on Wednesday nights, but we're talking about picking a new day. We want your input. Short version: it's been way too long since I've even seen you play, let alone gotten a game in against ye; contact me.
I wonder why we have to pay for regional kits now. Wasn't prize support ALWAYS supposed to be free? And I kind of have to agree on how the $135 isn't even worth what's in the kit. I also have to agree on Arch on banning Lord of the Makai. His points are more than valid.
NintendoMan said:
MarcoPulleaux said:
Archimedes said:
Lord of the Makai needs to be banned. This is the part where I tell all the people already typing "QUIT WHINING ABOUT BANNING! BANNING TALK IS NOT ALLOWED!" into the reply boxes to shut up because I actually have an argument and mindless banning complaints is what is verbatim.
The stated course of this game is to move it away from walling up and finishing in one sure fire shot. The stated course of this game is to encourage attacking over multiple turns. The damage from attacking is nice, but the momentum is what matters.
Why would I ever want to attack over multiple turns when the best/fastest finishers in the environment can be set up in 1 turn with Lord of the Makai? Why would I fill my deck with more 3 checks when they could be blocked/reduced to zero and not give me momentum when Lord of the Makai gives me momentum for free?
Momentum needs to mean something in this game. And at the moment, the concept behind it is
worthless
with Lord of the Makai in the environment. Attacking needs to be
the
premier method of generating momentum, and if any sort of momentum generation is to be put onto Actions, Assets, or Foundations it needs to be 1 shot, heavily costed, and most likely combo oriented (or at the very least, temporary).
I am speaking as a mid-high caliber tournament player. Watching decks in the tournament that could not run Lord of the Makai, it IS possible to attack over multiple turns to generate momentum for you, but if you drop into the top 8, you’ll see that 5 of them ran Lord of the Makai, and by top 4 every single deck had Lord of the Makai. It just makes tossing out the game ending Feline Spike/Lunar Slash/Ryu’s Shin Shoryuken too easy too early. And the three to four turns spent not attacking for momentum were spent building a foundation base that was made fully available to them by NOT having to run 8-10 extra attacks.
For the health and for the charted course of this game, Lord of the Makai needs to go away.
THIS! THIS RIGHT F'IN HERE! WHY IS NOBODY PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS?
I dont agree at all... there have been many other powerful momentum generators (Whereabouts, Power Up, Hop) in the past with no cries for bannings or whatnot. Yes momentum is powerful but I think this has more to do with brokeness of Feline Spike then anything. LotM is a very very good card and it is an enabler, but what is it enabling? O yeah broken cards like Feline Spike and Defender.
Hop and Power Up are irrelevant as block 1 was a completely different environment compared to the current standard. If they were present in the current environment I'd want them gone as well.
I never liked Whereabouts, but the mitigating factor of ABSURD STRENGTH (Oh hai) and the fact that is granted the opponent momentum as well was seen by many to be a balancing factor so I didn't push to hard for its removal from the environment, I just ran Mortal Strike and Absurd in every deck.
Also, you mention the brokeness of Feline Spike but what about Defender loops? Or Wall of Grey decks such as the Alex I faced that just smashed your face with a huge Ryu's ShinSho after you try in vain to push through the wall and 28 vitality?
Feline Spike may be a poster child for why Lord of the Makai needs to go away, but there are a handful of reasons if you stop to think about it.
1) Spike
2) Defender Loops
3) Statistically Unbalanced
4) Encourages a wall of Grey and discourages attacking over multiple turns to generate momentum. Possibly errata to "Only playable during your attack" (which would still bust Feline Spike open)
5) DESIGN ISSUES: Every single card with a momentum cost on it, the Designers and playtesters are going to have to go "Ok would this get out of hand with Lord of the Makai?"
6) Design ISSUES pt2: It invalidates every single other piece of momentum generation out there, and future (and hopefully balanced) momentum generation cards will be dismissed as "Not Lord of the Makai"
7) Fun Factor: Obtaining Lord of the Makai is not fun, playing against it is not fun, and after a while, playing WITH it isn't fun.
Shaneth said:
I wonder why we have to pay for regional kits now. Wasn't prize support ALWAYS supposed to be free ? And I kind of have to agree on how the $135 isn't even worth what's in the kit. I also have to agree on Arch on banning Lord of the Makai. His points are more than valid.
sure, and most tourney's (beyond a minimal entry fee paid to the store for using their space) are free. you ARE allowed to charge an entry fee for the larger events, and $10 seems to be the standard. so, if you look at it THAT way, the entry fees pay for the kit, and leave some extra cash depending on the amount of participants.
@arch: WU isn't balanced. that card can rot in hell for how out of balance it is.
GouHadou said:
@arch: WU isn't balanced. that card can rot in hell for how out of balance it is.
Any momentum generation is pretty much unbalanced outside of 1 per commit. Knee Gatling being the main offender in certain cases.
Archimedes said:
NintendoMan said:
MarcoPulleaux said:
Archimedes said:
Lord of the Makai needs to be banned. This is the part where I tell all the people already typing "QUIT WHINING ABOUT BANNING! BANNING TALK IS NOT ALLOWED!" into the reply boxes to shut up because I actually have an argument and mindless banning complaints is what is verbatim.
The stated course of this game is to move it away from walling up and finishing in one sure fire shot. The stated course of this game is to encourage attacking over multiple turns. The damage from attacking is nice, but the momentum is what matters.
Why would I ever want to attack over multiple turns when the best/fastest finishers in the environment can be set up in 1 turn with Lord of the Makai? Why would I fill my deck with more 3 checks when they could be blocked/reduced to zero and not give me momentum when Lord of the Makai gives me momentum for free?
Momentum needs to mean something in this game. And at the moment, the concept behind it is
worthless
with Lord of the Makai in the environment. Attacking needs to be
the
premier method of generating momentum, and if any sort of momentum generation is to be put onto Actions, Assets, or Foundations it needs to be 1 shot, heavily costed, and most likely combo oriented (or at the very least, temporary).
I am speaking as a mid-high caliber tournament player. Watching decks in the tournament that could not run Lord of the Makai, it IS possible to attack over multiple turns to generate momentum for you, but if you drop into the top 8, you’ll see that 5 of them ran Lord of the Makai, and by top 4 every single deck had Lord of the Makai. It just makes tossing out the game ending Feline Spike/Lunar Slash/Ryu’s Shin Shoryuken too easy too early. And the three to four turns spent not attacking for momentum were spent building a foundation base that was made fully available to them by NOT having to run 8-10 extra attacks.
For the health and for the charted course of this game, Lord of the Makai needs to go away.
THIS! THIS RIGHT F'IN HERE! WHY IS NOBODY PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS?
I dont agree at all... there have been many other powerful momentum generators (Whereabouts, Power Up, Hop) in the past with no cries for bannings or whatnot. Yes momentum is powerful but I think this has more to do with brokeness of Feline Spike then anything. LotM is a very very good card and it is an enabler, but what is it enabling? O yeah broken cards like Feline Spike and Defender.
Hop and Power Up are irrelevant as block 1 was a completely different environment compared to the current standard. If they were present in the current environment I'd want them gone as well.
I never liked Whereabouts, but the mitigating factor of ABSURD STRENGTH (Oh hai) and the fact that is granted the opponent momentum as well was seen by many to be a balancing factor so I didn't push to hard for its removal from the environment, I just ran Mortal Strike and Absurd in every deck.
Also, you mention the brokeness of Feline Spike but what about Defender loops? Or Wall of Grey decks such as the Alex I faced that just smashed your face with a huge Ryu's ShinSho after you try in vain to push through the wall and 28 vitality?
Feline Spike may be a poster child for why Lord of the Makai needs to go away, but there are a handful of reasons if you stop to think about it.
1) Spike
2) Defender Loops
3) Statistically Unbalanced
4) Encourages a wall of Grey and discourages attacking over multiple turns to generate momentum. Possibly errata to "Only playable during your attack" (which would still bust Feline Spike open)
5) DESIGN ISSUES: Every single card with a momentum cost on it, the Designers and playtesters are going to have to go "Ok would this get out of hand with Lord of the Makai?"
6) Design ISSUES pt2: It invalidates every single other piece of momentum generation out there, and future (and hopefully balanced) momentum generation cards will be dismissed as "Not Lord of the Makai"
7) Fun Factor: Obtaining Lord of the Makai is not fun, playing against it is not fun, and after a while, playing WITH it isn't fun.
I did actually mention Defender loops but whatever...
You say LotM encourages the wall of grey, and to a point I agree with you, but however its also one of Aggros biggest tools to defeat Control. There have only been a few characters that encourage the use of stringing multiple attacks together (because HS and the low CCs are a limiting factor) and Stringing attacks togehter takes time to set up and allows control to set up their pices. LotM gives aggro a chance to beat control to the punch with earlier turn wins.
Yeah Absurd and Mortal Strike were huge deterents to momentum generation.... but there are others out there now. Those cards in themselves were broken. We now have the option in Ikari Warrior which is way more balanced.
I know LotM is an amazing card but by itself its nothing, its momentum generation quality is necessary for this game for both control and aggro because momentum is the main source of kill conditions.
GouHadou said:
Shaneth said:
I wonder why we have to pay for regional kits now. Wasn't prize support ALWAYS supposed to be free ? And I kind of have to agree on how the $135 isn't even worth what's in the kit. I also have to agree on Arch on banning Lord of the Makai. His points are more than valid.
sure, and most tourney's (beyond a minimal entry fee paid to the store for using their space) are free. you ARE allowed to charge an entry fee for the larger events, and $10 seems to be the standard. so, if you look at it THAT way, the entry fees pay for the kit, and leave some extra cash depending on the amount of participants.
@arch: WU isn't balanced. that card can rot in hell for how out of balance it is.
heck, it's $20 for our regional, but our scout is also buying us pizza and soda
GouHadou said:
Shaneth
said:
I wonder why we have to pay for regional kits now. Wasn't prize support ALWAYS supposed to be free ? And I kind of have to agree on how the $135 isn't even worth what's in the kit. I also have to agree on Arch on banning Lord of the Makai. His points are more than valid.
sure, and most tourney's (beyond a minimal entry fee paid to the store for using their space) are free. you ARE allowed to charge an entry fee for the larger events, and $10 seems to be the standard. so, if you look at it THAT way, the entry fees pay for the kit, and leave some extra cash depending on the amount of participants.
Well yeah, I charge at my store I run for because we support our store. $5 for playing space plus a booster pack or two is reasonable, but promo cards you get for free. Hell, playmats you even get for free too, provided you sign up for pre-releases. Seems like the only thing you are possibly paying for out of the regionals kits are the vitality counters.
And yeah, I suppose paying for a regionals would be worth it if, like quarzark said, it is managed well and keeps the players happy and full of teh foods. I wouldn't want to pay $20 tho for a couple of promos I could get back at the home shop and a foil Red Lotus. Sure it's worth the money to play and hang out with people who you don't normally chill with, but the expenses paid for traveling should cover that alone.
Shaneth said:
And yeah, I suppose paying for a regionals would be worth it if, like quarzark said, it is managed well and keeps the players happy and full of teh foods. I wouldn't want to pay $20 tho for a couple of promos I could get back at the home shop and a foil Red Lotus. Sure it's worth the money to play and hang out with people who you don't normally chill with, but the expenses paid for traveling should cover that alone.
I know if we get one the only reason we' d charge is to off-set the cost of the kit, and any exceedent would go into buying packs/boxes to add as prizes.
^best idea so far
[nomnomnomnnom]
GouHadou said:
^best idea so far
[nomnomnomnnom]
Considering it's what we already do to support the store... (If you broke you still play, you just don't get to pick from the rares - In our normal tournaments at the very least. Regionals would be another matter)
sounds like fun, wish i woulda attended,
except i found out i'm losing my job in 2 weeks.
another store bites the dust.
ps, did Matt and Jean go?
So...those regional prizes...?