I have 2 Catelyn in my deck.
One in play knelt and the other in my hand.
When my opponent attack me by intrigue, can I put my Catelyn into play from my hand, add to the knelt one as duplicate?
If I can, can I kneel Catelyn again to be a defender? I remember that we are ok to kneel a knelt character unless the kneeling is the cost.
Uncle Joker said:
One in play knelt and the other in my hand.
When my opponent attack me by intrigue, can I put my Catelyn into play from my hand, add to the knelt one as duplicate?
Her ability says you can put her into play as a defender (not a duplicate). So no.
Uncle Joker said:
If I can, can I kneel Catelyn again to be a defender? I remember that we are ok to kneel a knelt character unless the kneeling is the cost.
First, I don't see what this has to do with the first question. Second, you cannot kneel a character that is kneeling. You can choose a kneeling character as a target for a kneeling effect, which will then fizzle out without doing anything. Successfully kneeling a character is a requirement for declaring that character as a defender (unless a card ability says otherwise).
Otherwise you could declare all kneeling characters as defenders all the time.
I agree with the second part about kneeling, the first part I dont.
When you put her into play from your hand she would hit the table, there would be another copy of her on board that you control and own, so she would become a duplicate. This would stop the duplicate from going back to your hand as well. I think of it as when you bring another copy of a unique card out of shadows and it attaches as a duplicate.
Mathias Fricot said:
I agree with the second part about kneeling, the first part I dont.
When you put her into play from your hand she would hit the table, there would be another copy of her on board that you control and own, so she would become a duplicate. This would stop the duplicate from going back to your hand as well. I think of it as when you bring another copy of a unique card out of shadows and it attaches as a duplicate.
But the ability says to put her into play as a defender. I would think if you cannot do that, you cannot trigger her ability.
Saturnine said:
But the ability says to put her into play as a defender. I would think if you cannot do that, you cannot trigger her ability.
Why can't you put her as a defender? Because she already defend?
Rogue30 said:
But the ability says to put her into play as a defender. I would think if you cannot do that, you cannot trigger her ability.
Why can't you put her as a defender? Because she already defend?
I think what Saturnine is getting at with his "can't do it" idea is that if I have a copy that is already in play and not defending, do I really meet the play restrictions for the "put into play as a defender" effect? I'd say you can After all, whether Catelyn is defending or not when you use the "put into play" to dupe her, the dupe isn't defending. You just need there to be a power or intrigue challenge initiated against you at the point you use it.
ktom said:
After all, whether Catelyn is defending or not when you use the "put into play" to dupe her, the dupe isn't defending.
That was my argument for not being able to put her into play. But apparently the text "knelt as a defender" does not constitute a play restriction.
Saturnine said:
After all, whether Catelyn is defending or not when you use the "put into play" to dupe her, the dupe isn't defending.
That was my argument for not being able to put her into play. But apparently the text "knelt as a defender" does not constitute a play restriction.
I can accept it, but I still think it's odd.
But this issue aside, I have a related question: If I have two Catelyns in my hand and I put one into play as a defender, and put the second copy on her as a dupe during another challenge, can I discard the dupe to save the original copy from being returned to my hand? I'm not sure how the dupe response interacts with the lasting effect that Catelyn's ability has initiated.
Saturnine said:
Triggered effects are not allowed at the end of the phase (FAQ page 7, 2.6)
I think if he means he puts two into play, when the end of phase comes will it return to his hand and discard the dupe, or discard the dupe and keep one in play. I'd say you could sacrifice the duplicate to stop her from returning to your hand.
Mathias Fricot said:
And Rogue is correct. You cannot trigger Response effects during the "end of phase" framework action. Discarding dupes to save the character is a Response effect. As such, you are not allowed to save Catelyn from being returned to hand by her effect with a dupe or any other Response effect. She returns to hand and the dupe goes to the discard pile.
Aye, I meant it like Rogue30 and ktom suggested.
sorry, my mistake