I have a player that wants to be a nobleborn cleric. Now seeing this as is written, he gets 500 thrones per 400xp. This seems to be really really broken in terms of how the balance of money is in dark heresy. Am I understanding this correctly? It just seems like he would be able to buy an obscene amount of really good items and then relative to the rest of the party is like a god.

Thanks!

JAK

Given that this character would be rooted in two social classes (Ministorum with 200 Thrones/Month or Nobility with 500/Month), things could go either way here. You could rule that the character only receives his Ministorum income since his ties to the family have been severed by duty, or you could agree with the player that his character receives a Noble's income as his family somehow continues to sponsor his career or lets him access special accounts, or even "circumvent" the meaning of the income and let those 500 Thrones come directly from the Ecclesiarchy due to the nature of his post or the wealth of his diocese.

Do keep in mind that Rank Increase only raises the monthly income by 20 (for Ministorum) or 50 (for Nobility), though. Where did you get that with the 400 xp from?

As an alternative, you could also pool every character's monthly income into a single account and simply declare that, rather than the money coming from their respective professions, this is what their Inquisitor is funding your players' cell with. This might encourage roleplaying and group decisions whilst simultaneously eliminating the issue of unequal income. In this case, one character indirectly funneling 500 Thrones per month into the cell's account will help everyone rather than just himself Just food for thought.

That's what someone on here told me about how often to give your players income. How often do you give your players income?

It doesn't seem broken to me. It looks pretty representative of what class/profession differences should be. Government always gets paid more than the cops and soldiers. Specialists generally get paid more than the cops and soldiers as well. If anything, the scum get too little compared to the rest of them.

Otherwise, as a GM, you can rule anyway you choose. If you think they are getting to much, have the Inquisitor bank his money and give a lessened allowance as you see fit. You'd need to keep track of how much they've got in the "bank" though, otherwise you'd get a frustrated player on your hands.

Edit: wait, you said "wants to be a nobleborn cleric"? You are letting your players choose what background and career they will be, as opposed to the random roll? Or did they random roll the nobleborn cleric and you are having issues with it?

Yeah I was going to let them choose how they wanted their characters. It just seems like then he would be able to use power swords and such, while other guys are using much less powerful weapons.

jak102789 said:

In the campaign I currently play in (yeah, no GM, I hope you don't mind me chiming in here regardless), income depends solely on plot progression. The book says "X per month", which is a unit of time independent of a character's xp. Our GM simply ruled that, say, ten weeks had passed since the last session (where the characters began training at a secret Inquisitorial facility), so everyone received two times their monthly income (basically to provide them with some pocket money to get ready for the upcoming adventure).

This way, you disconnect people's income from the xp they accumulate and can make it depend on the "downtime" between the assignments that lead the cell back together. You know, the time they spend in their old jobs, which is also the perfect opportunity to train new skills or talents, or to purchase gear. If you do not want people to accumulate wealth that fast, simply decrease the downtime and rush the characters from one mission into the next - though you should keep in mind that warp travel would still move time forward.

This would give you indirect control about their options for expanding their armoury and purchase particularly powerful equipment. Which may not be a bad thing, depending on the power level you and your players are looking for, what careers they play and what ranks they are.

Well, Warhammer 40K is simply not a setting about equality, let alone balance. It’s a setting where a Lord Governour and certain high-ranking Adepta decide about the fate of billions with the blink of an eye, while a scum from down-hive scours an abandoned manufactorum for food rations.

Let him buy his shiny Power Sword and let him do these few points more of damage in combat, but let him also be rather conspicuous and targeted a lot by enemies and scammers alike. Running around with best quality Bolt Pistols and Power Swords (let alone Power Armour…) will raise suspicion everywhere, not only in undercover operations from down- to mid-hive. Target him first and foremost by any opposition and let him be recognized by anyone else (friends and rivals alike). Try to imagine someone with his expensive designer clothes and gold chains running through the slum of a third world country.

Just don’t make it easy for him being rich. Furthermore, the really powerful items are more restricted through their low availability than due to their price. In 40K connections to the right people and organizations as well as nominal power is often far more worth than mundane Throne Gelt in abundance.

Asgard4tw said:

Just remember that while the noble can buy better gear, high quality gear also has been made to look much more ornate. So that best quality lasgun will stand out in an underhive bar, even a bar where everyone else has an ex-guard lasgun. That only gets worse if the noble goes for a gun that is better than las and SP weapons. So you can play up the consequences of that.

Also, the other players don't have to be happy about one guy having all the good stuff. Their Inquisitor could also get annoyed at one acolyte who isn't doing all he can to succeed.

If you have a problem with it, either tell the player to pick a different homeworld, or tell him what you are changing about noble born and give him a chance to change it.

I've seen people here talk about giving the acolytes a profit factor (Rogue Trader) or influence score (Ascension) for buying stuff instead of an income. I'm planning to run a DH game where the players are told that they work for the Inquisition now, not whoever they did before. So they are being paid by their Inquisitor, not their previous employer, and they are all getting paid the same. Though nobles and scum are both tricky points here, nobles because it's family wealth (would you cut off a family member from his inheritance just because he started working for someone who can legally order the death of every single family member ?), scum because they were self-employed.

Asgard4tw said:

What's so strange about gms letting the players chose ?

There is nothing saying that players have to roll*. In fact, everything I've seen says that players get to chose between picking both or rolling for them:

- The first paragraph of the homeworld section in the DH core book clearly says that rolling is an option for when you aren't sure about your character.

- The Inquisitors Handbook states that it's table for homeworlds replaces the table in the core book. Nothing about rolling being mandatory.

- Blood of Martyrs says that its random homeworld/career table are for "those who chose to use the Random Origin and Career path selection process".

Then we have Rogue Trader and Deathwatch, which don't even have the tables to roll your character.

*Some gms may force their players to roll for both. But that would be the gms decision, and probably an unusual one.

Hi Jak,

1) You are totally right. The money system in DH has nothing to do with balance. And if you ask me, it never will

2) It is not 500 throne per 400xp per month. It is 500thrones per RANK per month. Which is only making it slightly better for you.

3) Oh yes, the spending.

I normally tend to hand the pc some budget anyhow, so personal money is not making to much of a difference. The highest earning pc is the Merchant-Skilled pc earning 120 Thrones/month.


My experience: My players (I run two different groups) tend to help each other out with money as soon as one of them earns much much more then anyone else. Especially when it comes to armor. "It is no good to me if I am the last man standing / We are in this together."

Some valid points made about the fact that people running aorund with shiny new weapons will tend to get targetted by scammers and low-lifes more than people wearing average gear. You can definitely play that up.

Some other things to consider:

- Is this nobleborn cleric homeless? Most nobles have houses. Big houses. That cost money to keep up. They also need to pay for food, staffing, staff's food, water bills, electric bills, etc, etc. Unless the book specifically says these things are already accounted for, you can pretty much deduct however much money you want for "costs of living."

- Also, if he's rich AND a cleric, the ministorum is going to be poking him for "donations" basically all the time.

- If he's trying to maintain a noble's income, he may be obligated to maintain a noble's lifestyle as well. That means his family will be calling him to coerce him into making public appearances at various fund raisers and other social functions. They may even threaten to cut off his "allowance" if he skips too many of those. That, in turn, raises the possibility of him being recognized by various and sundry people, which can be dangerous for someone trying to conduct undercover investigations.

- If he really wants the best gear available, he'll probably have to buy it from upscale merchants and dealers. Joe's Gun Emporium on the mid-hive level isn't going to have rare masterworked combi-weapons lying around on demand. Upscale merchants are likely to charge extra money by way of "convenience fees" and "quality guarantees." They'll promise to cut through all the red tape of buying a gun (for a price), look the other way on certain modifications he wants that might not be strictly legal on this planet, that sort of thing. Basically they'll screw him because they know anyone shopping here is rich, and rich folks can "spare a few extra thrones."

- I would make a special point of having these merchants ask him if he'd like a "lifetime warranty" for basically every single purchase he makes at such stores. Warranties that will conveniently be voided if the weapon does actually break for some reason. "Oh, you took the weapon off-world? I'm sorry, the warranty is voided if you leave this planet." "Oh, Tyranid acid blast, you say? We don't cover Tyranids, I'm afraid." "Actually this weapon is designed for display purposes only. Was that not made clear to you? I'm sorry, actual combat voids the warranty."

I wouldn't use all of these hooks all of the time, but rich people still need to work for their money (or at the very least pay more attention to it lest it get squandered away.) It may not seem like work compared to what we normal folk go thorugh, but everything has its price.

Aside from that, I wouldn't worry too much about "letting them get the good gear." Players who have good gear will have fun playing, and having fun is the point of any RPG. Besides, you get to dictate what gear the enemy has. Just make sure its a match for whatever the party is carrying. =P

Gregorius21778 said:

Another often overlooked thing about the noble born character is that one little trait called "Vendetta" Noble wants to buy expensive equipment? Let em!!! And when those equally well equipped hitmen come to attack the party, the noble in question will get to test out the gear. Also Throw some deamons at them. I know that the player in question is a cleric and it is therefore easy for him to increase his WP, but still it doesn't hurt. Nobles have a low starting WP anyway.

There are plenty of options for money and gear. Plus if you really want to mess with them just put the party on a feral world and say "Go find that cult i'll be back in 6 months!!!!" Yeah time will pass and the player will be building up money, but they will have no possible way to access their coffers. If they make it off the planet he'll need all of that money. They've got to pay for bionic limbs and whatnot. Just remember, "A fool and his money are soon parted"

Also that bit about the months salary every 400 xp is if you are beginning a game at a higher rank than rank 1. That being said, it's also a benchmark, you could make it 1 month for every 500 xp or more or less.

Gregorius21778 said:

500+(50*(Rank-1)) per month

I actually have a noble-born cleric in my group. At first I was a little nervous that his increased buying power would lead to him outpacing the rest of the group ( cough- power armour -cough ) but so far (the party just turned 5th level) it hasn't been a problem- I just give him plenty of opportunities to live "high on the hog" (while the rest of the party eat gruel...) and buy some "gee-whiz" do-dads and his income seems to dissipate just fine...

I've actually had two different Nobleman Clerics in two different games, both have spent the money to keep up appearances and present themselves as noblemen. One of them really went to town on this and at points lavished money on overly expensive trinkets because he was a noble and logically deserved them... like his best quality chrono... and his best quality micro bead... and his other best quality set of robes. The other one bought a bolt pistol and a clip as soon as he could and ran around for a few ranks with no idea how to use it but was happy since it was a status symbol...

But Vendetta is there for a reason, and enemies don't always have to be violent encounters they could be more subtle.

Argh... so much BS and bad GM tips in this thread it makes me sick...

Ok first of all you have to decide if you allow such a character in your group, that is your right as a GM. After all, it is the GM's prerogative to make any limitations or allowances he likes to better suit his campaign. If you want gritty- poor acolytes who has to steal and loot what they can just to make enough for ammo so they can blow away equally gritty heretics, then the noble simply does not fit in.

If however you allow the acolytes to get more equipment, maybe a stipendium from the Inquisitor, or at least the chance to loot some really impressive stuff (like they do in the Haarlock Legacy), I found out the Noble's income ceased to be a problem fairly quickly. Sure, he can afford to get tailored stuff on order, and might have the connections to get it without drawing undue attention, but the rest of the team will probably also be able to get effective equipment, including bolters, power weapons, and special IH guns and ammo. In the end the Noble Assassin in my group is really not that much better equipped than anyone else anymore.

What not to do however is allow the background, then make up excuses and cheesy nerfs just to make the character either unplayable or just as poor as anyone else. Examples include:

1. Yeah you're a rich noble, but your House costs so much you are actually left with 50 thrones every month. Especially considering that GMs generally don't enforce this for the other characters, as ingame prices are so high only the Noble could possible sustain himself on the wages.

2. Allow him to get whatever stuff he wants, then make the world out to get him. Despite any attemts to appear normal or blend in, NPCs will routinely know he is a rich ***** and ignore whatever dangers there might be in attacking or hindering such a wealthy and influental character, who is usually travelling around with heavily armed "escort." And no, best quality doesen't always means it is that much more ornemental than usual, especially if the Noble in question can commission it. I would think most Inquisition Nobles try to get both flashy noble stuff as well as discreet acolyte stuff, so he can adapt to the situation at hand.

3. The Enemy "flaw." My experience from other RPG is that such a disadvantage is often flawed in itself as will either be affecting the whole group, or will be a do or don't - eiher has no effect or completely destroys or kills the character. Of course the latter is amendable by Fate, but arbitrarily losing a FP in a unavoidable "accident" is not a good talent, might as well just say you get -1 FPs at chargen. The new background trait could be called "Second chance" where it assumes Nobles often are targetted at a young age by enemies and thus would probably have burned Fate from the get go. Using Vendetta as a non-combat flaw is probably better, but more difficult to pull off, depending on the character in question. What do you do to someone with nothing to lose but his life and his wealth?

Friend of the Dork said:

True, but commissioning a new item is likely to be more expensive than buying one of the already existing ornamental ones. Though not by much,prices are only a guideline, so not enough to be noticeable. But I would warn the player about this when they purchase the item.

Personally I don't like the idea of "player x is very richthus the only one who can afford good gear, lets give the other players equally good gear to keep up", especially when the wealth is a major part of the player, because it's basically telling the wealthy character that part of his character has no meaning. Giving it to the group (say, someone they killed has it)letting them split it up is fine.

Unless I suspected the player to cause a problem with it, I'd allow a noblelet the players sort it out among themselves.

Bilateralrope said: