How long do you guys think it will take for us to see some cards reflecting events from ADWD?

ZombiePrime said:

I'm thinking probably not until next year. The Oldtown cycle will run till late summer, and they'll probably map out the following cycle before or around the time ADWD is released. They might sneak a few cards in towards the end of that cycle. The quesion is also whether there will be any significant new characters, locations, etc. in ADWD that would warrant being made into a card.

The thing i'm most exited with the book is not only new characters... but how "old" ones will act... and how minor houses raise in the story... In that sense I think (hope) that FFG waits this book before thinking introducing Arryn and Tyrrel in the enviroment... Arryn with a Arryn traited Littlefinger ecc ecc ecc

This can give new life to our game with new mechanic, new alliance, new characters, new flavor... let's wait and hope :-)

Maybe FFG got some preview chapters to read we did not. "Bones of a child" e.g. is a card from the new book from a chapter that was spoiled to the public. Maybe FFG got a little bonus chapter.

I'm certain they'll never introduce other Houses into the game as Houses proper, with House card etc. They'd be at such a disadvantage cardpool-wise. Also, what kind of theme would they be able to give them that is distinct enough from the other Houses. Even the Houses that we have are becoming more versatile (or watered down, depending on your viewpoint).

They may well release a chapter pack cycle or expansion box that introduces these Houses via agendas, though.

ZombiePrime said:

Following the assumption that the book will really be released in early summer i think we will probably see some cards reflecting events from ADWD very quickly. As a long time player it´s my impression that some old themes (and charachters) have been recycled a litle bit to often. So i hope for some new ideas. And maybe we´ll finally see a new Ser Gregor Clegane ?! ;-)

Old Ben said:

My personal guess is that we'll see Gregor in the Lanni box which should be coming up after the Targ box.

On a completely unrelated note - four posts by four different German posters in a row - man, we own these boards, don't we?

Oh, didn't realize Old Ben is German as well

Ratatoskr said:

;-) Well, it´s easy when you are online at around 10:00 a.m. middle european time when most of the US users are still asleep.

I wouldn't think it would be a bad thing if FFG introduced a second version of the "Core" set that introduces two brand new houses, like Arryn and Tyrell like someone above mentioned, since there have been cards with their traits already made anyway.

Release a second "Core" with the two new houses in the form of four pre-made decks (two of each for 2x or 4x each card for each House). And then just start adding in additional ones into the newer Cycles from then on.

mischraum.de said:

Really?

Do you know where to find the spoiled chapter?

@Rogue Cypher

Not that I expect the game to get a new house, but they could do what Call of Cthulhu did and release a Deluze expanions based around the new house, and then put 5-7 cards particular to that house (or themes) in each CP for the next cycle. Sure, the hosue would be weaker than the others, but it is newer tot he "game" and thus at a disadvantage of sorts. By the end of the cycle the hosue should have 65-80 house related cards, which is enough for 2-3 deck types to emerge (not counting possible Treaty decks).

@Laughing Tree

It's at the end of the Feast book, after all the House information. It has also been spoiled on GRRM's website (along with the Tyrion and Jon chapters) and there was a BIG SPOILER AHEAD reek chapter on the Amazon UK site that may or may not still be there.

I think adding a House Arryn would not be a bad idea. It would be preferable to a series of neutral arryn cards.

In my opinion it ALL depends on how the story will go on... if Arryn, guided by littlefinger, will have a strong role in the next book they would have enough material to make "an house identity" by itself... If not, they can surely do something with Agenda. I'm always a fan of "new feature in the game"...

JerusalemJones said:

Ahh ok. I think I just considered that part of Feast, thanks for the info.

JerusalemJones said:

Well, way I see it. If they continue to build on the current six houses and just toss in random characters with no 'real' identity towards one House, we're going to be stalled for awhile in terms of new deck types for those six. If they were to release maybe a second 'Core' set that features two brand new Houses, bringing the total to eight plus neutral, it could probably re-energize how people build their decks and could open up a ton of new options. Plus an Expansion Box for each on top of it a few months later? Could be great.

I don't like the idea of adding houses. There are 6 great houses in the Westeros mythos, let's just keep it at that.

ZombiePrime said:

There are actually nine:

• Stark
• Greyjoy
• Baratheon
• Lannister
• Martell
• Targaryen
• Tully
• Arryn
• Tyrell

With respect to the game, the Tullys have already been integrated with the Starks, and the Tyrells have been somewhat integrated Lannister and (more so) Baratheon. That leaves House Arryn and there's a good reason story-wise it wouldn't be created into a Major House for the game, but maybe ADwD could change that.

I think AGoT needs at least the next ~1.5 years to fix a few kinks in it's overall design. I wouldn't want to see a new House introduced before that happens. My vote - stay with the current six.

In book terms, historically speaking, the Greyjoys and the Tullys are not considered "great Houses." They were raised after conquest by Aegon. They were never Kings in their own rights. By that definition, one could even argue that the Tyrells are not a great House either since they were raised by Aegon as well - to the position held by the Kings of the Reach, whom the Tyrell's served as stewards (it's very Gondor-esque).

Ultimately, there are 7 Kingdoms and usually thought to be 1 great House paramount over each Kingdom - plus the Targaryen overlords. The Iron Islands are not considered one of the 7 Kingdoms, so the GJs have a really hard time claiming the title of "great House."

I stand corrected.

ktom said:

Whut? They Greyjoys, like many other Great Houses, are tracing their lineage back to the Age of Heroes. They were a powerful force in Westeros until King Harren the Black got put into place by Aegon the Conqueror.

I believe the Tyrells were powerful before the conquest as well, though I can't really recall their history. Might be they were able to extend their influence under Targaryen rule after bending the knee. But any of the great Houses are only powerful right now because they surrendered and were allowed to thrive under Targaryen rule.

The way the game has been going it wouldn't effect it all that much. Outside of the expansion for the house... each chapter pack cycle has been more about using a neutralish mechanic and theme and providing each house with it.

Does it really matter for Maesters, Brotherhood, or Night's Watch if there are 6 or 8 houses?

Granted it would have been better to have made a wilding "house card" than the reduce by 2 agenda. Then Val wouldn't be nearly as abuseable if you had to pay 4 gold for her (outside the wilding house).

Well we already have Secrets of Oldtown announced, and on its way. They have to have another set already started by now. ADwD doesn't get released until this Summer just a month or two before SoO wraps up assuming no delays. I can't see them having designed, tested, and printed something based on ADwD, given GRRM says he is still working on the book (I'm guessing in his final rewrite). So if I had to guess It will be 2012 when we something based solely on ADwD.

Then again, if they received enough early chapters that we don't have, perhaps there could be some influence of those on whatever comes after SoO.

ktom said:

I would disagree with that evaluation. True, the Tully's weren't originally kings (and neither were the Tyrells); however both seem to be considered great houses (are referred to as such or 'Lords Paramount' throughout the books). The Greyjoys are a bit of a tweener; but, I would consider them a great house, as they don't pay homage to any other great Lords (other than the King). I don't think the 7 Great Houses for 7 Kingdoms argument really applies, as by that definition Targaryen would not be considered a Great House. I think it's more appropriate to look at the structure of the Bannermen, and who they owe fealty to.

From a Themeatic POV, the seven kingdoms and houses were:

The North and the Starks

The Vale and the Arryns

The Westerlands and the Lannisters

The Reach and the Gardners

The Stormlands and the Baratheons

The Riverlands and the Hoares

Dorne and the Martells

Now, the Targaryens came and conquered, killing off the Gardners and the Hoares. The Tyrells took over for the Gardners, and eventually the Greyjoys took over for the Hoares. So, based on the original Seven Kingdoms and the conquerers, we have eight houses, with only Tyrell and Arryn not being represented by a House in the game.

I don't see Arryn getting a house anytime soon. Lysa keeps them out of the war, and Littlefinger seems more likely to use others to achieve his own ends (whatever they may be). The Arryns, as such, will likely never enter the game as their own House, or as a major player. For one thing, the Arryns are not very populous anymore. When they have to go through a page of lineage to find the next person in line to the Eyrie, you know the Arryns don't have much going for them anymore.

Conversely, the Tyrells have aligned themselves with the other houses in the realm, first the Baratheons and now the Lannisters. They may be interested in making their own move, but Mace doesn't seem to have the guts and Olenna may be a bit old to try and take over the Throne; she may be more interested in protecting her family that ruling the Seven Kingdoms.

However, if any House (or houses) were to enter into the game, they would be the first two natural fits. Unless they create a Legendary House, in which case it will be Valayria.