its probaly been poated here before but i have been buying the minis,and am getting ready to buy the actual game,was just curious if there are rules with out the tiles.thanks and again sorry if this was posted before.

No such rules yet. I have marked a 6x4 grass battlemat into 4 inch squares and that works real well actually for larger games, like the one im going to play in a couple hours...

thanks for the quick reply oh and i am jealous dont really have anyone play against.thanks again john

It was epic, invited three people over to play 40k and as that wound down (not because objectives had been met or because anyone was winning but because it was just boring, like 40k really is) invited them to try out Dust. All three are getting their axis/allies in the next couple weeks. more converts to the cause. when you play em side by side or one after another the contrast is so stark, no looking through rulebooks, no sitting around while the other guy takes his turn. Dust is win.

theguildllc said:

I agree. The game is so simple, but still offers plenty of decisions. And you just can't beat how quick the game plays.

GrumpyBatman said:

i have come up with a batter term than "fast " or "quick " : " immediate gratification "

lets face it , the me then you activation mechanic is not new , its been done in other games , as has trhe specialty dice , stat cards , etc . but for the first time its all come together in a game in such a way that it has done away with so much unnecessary crud that so many other games have become bogged down in , that it really is the first game that gives you immediate gratification pretty much every turn as you zip past all the crud and get straight down to the action as each unit activates . ,

this game is all about immediate gratification

and theguildIIC ya , i agree totaly , and it extends beyond just the game , this game is so simple , that players have a chance to chat about war movies , comics , tanks , etc....... to get them into the "mood further " which is hard to do when you are spending lots of time looking up rules and arguring over outcomes .

though i wouldnt say "dust is WIN " , i would say DUST IS WAR !!!!!!!!

I don't see why you need any special rules to play without tiles it should be straightf orward enough, you can even use the LOS mechanism dot-to-dot as per the game. Just nominate a squad leader for your unit (ie the officer figure) and measure from him all the time (he becomes the dot), any models in the unit can be placed within say 2" of him. All you have to do now is to say how far a square on the board measures up, say 4" or 6", doesn't really matter as long as its consistant.

thanks guys,Major thanks for this i havnt played yet and am comming from at-43,and plan on buying the game today.so i guess once i play a few and get the rules,i will try this.thanks again i appreciate everyones help. john

Major Mishap said:

I've given it a try to use the existing rules without tiles and it's just not that simple. The reason I want to leave the tiles is to use all of the trerrain I've been collecting over the years that just doesn't work with the tile size. When you mix in forests, craters, hills and such, you end up with a lot of question marks and grey areas. Not that you can't make it work, but you either need to stick with simplistic terrain or you need two players dedicated more to making it work and having a good time than winning.

I want to play without tiles too, but for now it's easier to stick with the tiles until a dedicated tabletop system comes along. Hopefully we'll see something before the year is out.

Im converting all my terrain to this game. I find that basing the hills and woods onto right angled terrain, measured to fit onto single or multiple tiles works well. I marked off a battlemat into 4"x4" squares and that works great. I'll try to get pics up in april.

One thing that really gripped me last night about the tile system is how 'chess-like' the game can be, in all the best ways!

Oh, and Dust IS War.

Because of the good quality of the tiles, and the fact that they are releasing more, we are making / converting terrain to fit the squares and cover the center dot.

My game club plays lots of other games, so for the most part we are creating new materials.

Our old AT-43 bunkers work well standing up, however. With a quick paint of the bottom the look great representing almost metal, thick pillars.

Improvise and have fun gents.

Major Mishap said:

it still ends up slowing down a game as you spend time measuring , and have to deal with the risks of both intentional and unintentional cheating .

rwwingate said:

what question marks and grey areas ? even in more complicated games like 40k , terrain rules are generaly pretty simple , so whats the dif in using it based on a per square value rule vs actual size value rules ? if anthing , it should be just as representative , though simpler to deal with based on the idea that a whole square represents one cover or LOS value vs partial distances .

for instance , i think 40K still uses tha idea that if you are in a forrest , you cant shoot out or be shot at unless you are withing 2 inches of the edge , and that there is a move restriction for it . so if you are using the 40k style woods areas , whats the big deal about just ruling that a square containing atleast half forrest blocks LOS THROUGH it , but that it may still be targeted by units that can see the square ? its simple ,and accomlishes that same thing without needing to bother to use a tape measure to keep track of the 2" rule . for the move restrictions , just have a rule that no squad may spend 2 move actions when moving into/through/out of a forrest square .

right now i am working on some terrain projects to flesh out my terrain sets for just THIS game . and i am doing so based on my experiances with games like 40K and others . among the terrain i am working on are woods , craters , hills , etc ...... . and while i am making a few minor changes to cater it just to the DT system , its not a major issue , and i could just as easily spend another $10 total to have it dual purpose so i could use it for all the other 25/28/32mm scale games out there .

but this is a big project , and i have tons to do on it , so i will be posting it all at a some what slower pace than i would like as i get some things done .

and in reality , you have to understand that even games with no grid like 40k come up with a general set of terrain rules that give a flavor of the terrain type represented , but that they are still simplified to fit the games that use them . DT is no dif. in that regard ., its not dumbed down or worse than any of the others , its just displayed differently than in other games .

plenty of questions. Does that forest block walkers or can they bust through it? Can my soldiers get to the second floor of that building? Can I attack and destroy the building? Once you take away the grid, and start playing with freeform terrain, do you handle it like 40K, AT-43, Void, Starship Troopes, Urban War, Infinity or one of any number of other games? All of which handle things slightly differently. I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that there are issues that the current system doesn't cover and they need to be worked out in an agreeable manner, which takes time. I'm satisfied to stick with the current system until FFG or a fan does the brain damage for me. However, I still want a tabletop system at some point.

Kris, I know you vehemently oppose a tabletop version of DT and I respect that. However you should also respect those of us that don't like grids and want to play like a traditional tabletop game. I don't need to be lectured on how 40K does it because I've been playing off and on since 1995. I've also played plenty of other tabletop games that handled terrain better.

I don't claim that the grid system is dumbed down or overly simplified. It's just too rigid for me. Look at it like a scale One one end you have a simple but rigid game of chess that has taken battles almost to abstraction. On the other end you get something like 40K that has been revised, changed and built upon so that the rules have now become burdensome. Everyone has a different oppionon as to where the sweet spot on that scale is. You are correct that the act of measuring takes longer than simply moving from grid to grid. However for that added time, you gain a greater sense of realism. Is the trade off worth it. That's a matter of opinion. You have yours I have mine and no ammount of preaching from your side is going to change my mind.

when you choose to drop the grid , you end up with lots of the grey areas and questions since simply adopting a terrain system from another game means you have to make it fit the new game . but looking at elements like i have above , its not really all that grey .

i wasnt lecturing you about 40k , just pointing out the system for those that have NOT played it before ., and using its guidlines to show how it can be easily and similarly represented .

and if you are waiting for some one else to do the work , well here is the "brain damage" for city fighting , as well as some battle field fortifications .

the urban warfare is wordy , because it needed to be explained out to cover as much as possible , but they break down into simple to play out rules that after a game or 2 should be easy to remember :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/64533/urban-warfare

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/591843/my-terrain-projects

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/64534/combat-engineering-fortifications

there will be rules for hills , woodlands , and such in a few weeks for those that likewise are wanting something to add in .

johnnyboy said:

Created some preliminary rules. The basis of these rules is to maintain the core set of game play from the board game version with the exception to bring it in a 3-D enviroment. I do not claim to be original with some of these ideas and these ideas were based from the rules in the Starter Box.

INTRODUCTION
These are rules for playing Dust Tactics on a 3-D battle field. Game play will follow the standard rules unless otherwise noted in the proceeding.

INITIATIVE
As described on page 7 of the rulebook, WHO PLAYS FIRST.

ACTIVATION
As described on page 7 of the rulebook, WHAT CAN A UNIT DO WHEN IT IS ACTIVATED.

MOVEMENT
One square is equivalent to six inches (Note: Depending on table size this can be changed to four inches instead). In a MOVE a unit may move up to the maximum amount of squares they can move in one game turn. For example, Battle Grenadiers has a move of one square. So, for a given MOVE the Battle Grenadiers can move up to six inches. The measure of the MOVE is from any point on the base of the model.

As described on page 9 of the rulebook, the EFFECTS OF OTHER UNITS are still enforced. When a vehicle cannot move per the EFFECTS OF OTHER UNITS or impassable terrain then they must clear it before being allowed to change direction. To clear impassable terrain or a unit the entire base of the vehicle must be past it. After passing the object in question it may continue movement. An example of this is a Luther turning around a corner of a building. The Luther must move 4” forward for its entire base to clear the edge of the building. Afterward it can move up to 2” to turn the corner of the building.

UNIT COHERENCY
When moving a unit with more than one model in it, the unit must maintain unit coherency. So, once a unit has finished a MOVE, the models in it must be within a distance between one model and the next is no more than:

2” for Soldiers
4” for Vehicles
6” for Aircraft

During the course of a game, it’s possible a unit will get broken up and lose unit coherency, usually because it takes casualties. When this happens the unit must form back to unit coherency on their next MOVE.

CONSOLIDATED MOVE
When moving a model in a unit in base contact with a model in an opposing unit; the opposing unit must move all their models not in base contact up to 2” to get in base contact as much as possible with the unit. The up to 2” movement takes place once the MOVE is finished. Generally, a unit would want to move in base contact with an opposing unit in order to use close combat weapons.

TERRAIN TYPES
There are three general classes of terrain: clear, difficult and impassable.

• Clear terrain can be moved across without any penalty (e.g. Grass, Hills, etc).
• Difficult terrain slows downs models wishing to move through it (e.g. Forest, Rocks, etc).
• Impassable terrain prevents all movement through it (e.g. Buildings, etc).

Terrain types on the battle field are determined by both sides before the battle begins.

IMPASSABLE TERRAIN
A unit may not be placed or move thru impassable terrain unless the unit concerned have an ability granting them an exception. In addition impassable terrain counts as a square without a dot for determining line of sight.

DIFFICULT TERRAIN
If any model in a unit start their MOVE inside difficult terrain or wants to MOVE the unit thru difficult terrain it must roll two D6 and the highest roll (Note: Roll two D4 if movement distance is 4” instead of 6”). This is the maximum distance in inches the unit may go for one square of movement. Once every model in the unit clears difficult terrain then it may move normally if it has anymore square movement left.

For example, if a unit has two squares of movement for a MOVE and starts in difficult terrain. The unit rolls 2D6, the rolls come up 4 and 3. The unit uses a 4 for 4” of movement. After the 4” move, if every model in the unit is no longer in difficult terrain then it can use its second square movement up to the maximum amount of 6”. However, if any model in the unit is still in difficult terrain after the 4” movement then it must roll 2D6 for the second square movement.

In addition difficult terrain is a cover element which cannot be destroyed. The type of cover it provides is determined before the game begins. Or it can follow the simple rule of any difficult terrain above 1” in height provides HARD COVER. Otherwise SOFT COVER is provided by the difficult terrain.

SHOOTING RANGE
The distance of one square for weapon range is the same as one square defined in the MOVEMENT section. The exception is close combat weapons (e.g. Knife, Claw, etc), for this case instance a model in the unit must be in base contact with a model in the opposing unit.

LINE OF SIGHT
Line of sight is determined by tracing the center model of the unit to the targeted unit’s center model. If there is a dispute in determining the center model then each player rolls 3 dice. The side with the most TARGET gets to decide which model is the center model. If removing a center model for a casualty then the center model must be replaced with an existing model in the unit if possible. As described on page 10 of the rulebook, the WHAT BLOCKS LINE OF SIGHT? is still enforced.

CHECKING RANGE
To measure weapon range, you any point from the base of the center model to any point of the base of the targeted center model. In the board game version, the players are aware of the distances of the weapon range. As a result, the person deciding to SHOOT is allowed to check weapon ranges before deciding to do so.

OPEN FIRE!
As described on page 9 of the rulebook, the OPEN FIRE! is still enforced with the exceptions for section SHOOTING RANGE, CHECKING RANGE, and LINE OF SIGHT.

COVER ELEMENTS
Cover elements and type of cover are defined in the TERRAIN sections and as described on page 13 of the rulebook, WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF COVER?.

DETERMINING COVER
A unit has cover when any model in the unit is within 2” of a cover element and line of sight passes thru the cover element. If line of sight ends on a cover element (e.g. Center model is in forest, etc) then it will count as pass thru the cover element. For example, the Combat Rangers are within 2” of an ammo crate on the right. Laser Grenadiers are on the right side of the Combat Rangers. When the Laser Grenadiers target the Combat Rangers, line of sight passes thru the ammo crate. Since the Combat Rangers are within 2” as well they receive cover.

Battle Grenadiers are on the left side of the Combat Rangers. When the Battle Grenadiers target the Combat Rangers, line of sight does not pass thru the ammo crate. Even though the Combat Rangers are within 2” of the ammo crate they do not receive cover since line of sight does not pass thru it.

COVER
As described on page 13 of the rulebook, the WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF COVER? is still enforced with the exceptions for COVER ELEMENTS and DETERMINING COVER.

ABILITIES AND SPECIAL UNITS
As described on page 17 of the rulebook, the ABILITIES AND SPECIAL UNITS are still enforced with the exception(s):

AGILE
The unit is composed of swift and agile members. When it moves, the unit may move at the normal movement distance when moving in and thru difficult terrain.

SPECIAL WEAPONS
As described on page 21 of the rulebook, the SPECIAL WEAPONS are still enforced with the exception(s):

FLAMETHROWERS
A flamethrower shot is determined by a line drawn when determining line of sight. Units between this line are affected by the flamethrower. For each range square of the flamethrower it determines the number of units affected by it. There is no choice in which are affected, first come first serve and regardless of friend or foe. For example, a Flamethrower has a range of 1 and targets Laser Grenadiers unit. When tracing a line in the line of sight it goes thru Battle Grenadiers first. Since it has a range of 1, only the first unit is affected by it. As a result, the Battle Grenadiers take the flamethrower hit.