2 Champs and a Chump- Episode 13: Book Release, Heir to the Iron Throne and more!

By Kennon, in 1. AGoT General Discussion

kpmccoy21 said:

The conversation about power creep was interesting, but somewhat ironic. Alec's Lannister kneel deck that won GenCon last year was not based on power creep, but rather the overpowered cards Lannister has had since the beginning of LCG. And Will stated that he stopped playing Lannister shadow kneel because he was bored, not because the environment had evolved to make the deck obselete. Lannister hasn't gotten a "power card" since Alchemist's Guild Hall and has since seen it errata'ed. No one I know has moved Lannister out of the top 2 in Joust rankings. I would argue that instead of "power creep", we are seeing other Houses get the level of card synergy Lannister has always enjoyed in LCG. So now that theoretically there are 4 competetive houses/builds in the environment there must be power creep so we need to look for rotation and/or selective bannings. ~Maybe someday Targ and Greyjoy will see power creep too so they can become competetive in Joust.

I also find it interesting that we are worried about the NPE factor of a first turn win, but completely ignore the NPE factor of playing out a game for 20 minutes that was decided by plot 3, but the heavy control deck need another 4-6 plots to get to 15 power. ~Nothing is near as fun as playing 5 plots, knowing you can't win, but also knowing your opponent can't win any faster.

The only formats that will matter in the competetive environment is whatever formats FFG includes in the overall World Championships at GenCon. Everything else will be ignored by the community.

On things like Lanni, I partially agree. While the basic are pretty much the same (mainly Castellean, to a lesser extent some others), that deck still can put in Clansmen or any 'new shiny good-on-its-own character' to get stronger. Hyper-kneel (like income and draw) are very good themes, and are hard to improve and beat. But the point stands that either they keep getting better, or people will stop buying chapter packs just to get cards they won't use.

I totally agree on formats. Nothing has been popular except what goes into points for the Championship. And to be honest, if Multi didn't give points, it would be very sparcely placed as well. MOST players (not all) are playing this game competatively to play 1v1 Joust and want the 'standard' rules, whatever they are. Looking at games like MTG where there are various formats, usually the ones that have rotation are the most popular (no one REALLY likes to play type 1 - classic in aGoT - or 1.5 - classic restricted - that much in Magic, at least when I owned a gaming store).

Good point Kpmccoy, but I actually see Lanni's early head-start and overall power creep as two different things. Generally speaking, decks as a whole seem to be getting faster. Assuming Lanni runs exactly the same cards it used to (ie doesn't run new cards), I still think the average game goes much higher (not necessarily in terms of time, but just the importance on the setup + first 2 rounds). Again, I'm not saying the current average is bad, but if it gets to the point where the setup + first round essentially decide most games, we'll probably have to reevaluate.

Still, I think Lanni has improved through the release of cards over the past 1.5 years or so. Shadows Tyrion, Alchemists Guild Hall, etc. definitely make Lanni more competitive (and faster). I also saw some amazing Wildling-era Lannister decks...one that used Val incredibly well. (It turns out, Distraction and marshalling phase-kneel combined with lots of gold + Val is pretty decent.) Also, don't forget new plots like Retaliation and Fear of Winter...seemingly small additions that can really help close out a game. That said, I agree with you generally that Lanni hasn't improved *nearly* as much as other houses have.

I'm undecided on rotation. I can definitely see the problem playtesters will have with too big of a card pool. On the other hand, I'm not sure the entry barrier should be an issue in the LCG now that the chapter packs are coming with 3x of each card. A new player should be able to go out and purchase just the chapter packs or deluxe expansions they want for their decks. Of course that assumes that all chapter packs will be available/reprinted if they sell out.

If FFG would rotate, are talking about a new core set, or just chapter pack cycles?