Upon perusing the stack of career cards I came across a curiosity on the Troll Slayer card and was wondering what the community thought on the subject. The oddity that jumped out at me was that this Career is the only basic career that I could find which only had 4 skills at it disposal.

Do you guys think this was done on purpose? If so why?

Was this a misprint? If so what suggestions would you guys make for the 5th skill?

I am curious to hear what you guys have to say on the subject because I feel that this is not warranted as it puts the Slayer at a disadvantage, however if any of you can explain why this does not disadvantage the Slayer I'd love to hear your rational behind it.

Not at home currently but how many does the Giant Slayer have? As that might give an indication to if it is deliberate or not.

Thanks Crimsonsun

Giant Slayer has 4 as well. Seems they should have Discipline for resisting fear and intimidation if nothing else.

How odd... totally agree on the discipline also, I would have thought they would have a career ability to ignore this though. I have not paid any attention to the Slayer careers in all honesty, I have had no real reason too, I understand there background, and my players would not take the role of a Slayer outside of a roleplay situation that merited such drastic act they are just too one dimentional.

Its not a miss print, so I guess it could they are so intensely focused on dying they do not have time/care to learn of anything outside of achieving this goal in the most honourable fashion.

Crimsonsun

You need only 4 skills to find your Doom:)

The fifth skill could be tatooing and hair dressing, the crest has to stand. Or Education (trolling)

@bones: Was that the cause for your confusion in the current reckless dice episode?

Amani said:

Don't forget, Discipline is available to all Dwarf characters as a starting racial skill, and considering the other two are already on the Slayer skill list, almost every Slayer character will start with Discipline trained.

As for only having four skills, it's not really a disadvantage, points wise at least, since the 1 XP you'd have to spend on a fifth skill can just go somewhere else (like that sweet 3rd extra wound). Plus, it just seems very Slayer-ish, IMO.

The trollslayer line is one of the most powerful combatants in WFRP. The combination of their career attributes, the requirement of being a dwarf stacking with those, and their combat oriented stats definitely makes them shine (to the point where people thought they were overpowered early on). I don't think being shorted 1 skill really makes a difference, or damages the class in any way. I'm wondering what exactly you think affects them that way?

shinma said:

@ Shinma The question you posed here is not computing with me, sorry! I wish I understood so I could answer you.

@El Hefe You cannot spend creation advancements later on, as in you don't keep them if you don't spend them during creation. So you can't spend that one extra point on Wound threshold because that is not an option. Don't get me wrong the Narrator can make up any rules they wish, however it is not in the RAW. If you manage to spend all your points than good on you but, I guess I just like skillful characters to a fault. Guess I'm never playing a Slayer

@Zwobot LAUGHED MY BALLS OFF!, and what do you mean by my confusion on the RDP?

New to the game but in our grand total of two sessions my buddy's slayer made up for any lack of skill with serious efficiency in melee. And i agree that most Slayers will train Discipline before spending any creation points. The idea of a class so focused on dying suggests that skills are not high on their priority list. That said, it does make for a more narrow range of Slayer builds. But WFRP is fairly generous when it comes to using basic skills untrained, especially if the character has invested in the relevant stat. i can live with their limited skill selection.

Hi,

I'm not sure a slayer needs more than 1 rank of discipline taken at creation, or even any discipline at all. The terrible past may even have been triggered by a lack of discipline in the first place.

In 3rd ed its not like failing a fear test means you cant act, you just get stressed. Slayers dont seem to be all that good at taking it easy do they?

The other major use for discipline is to stop going mad, again not going mad is not a strong point for slayers either...

Not sure why only 4 skills though... maybe slayers have a short attention span?

I really like this last post

@Bones:

Amigo. You said having 4 skills puts a slayer at a disadvantage. I have no idea what that disadvantage is. I'm asking you to try and explain what exactly you think is missing for them to 'not be disadvantaged'. In other words this is not a misprint. They have plenty of other things to compensate. Why do you feel they are at a disadvantage?

I agree with Shima.

Just because most other careers have 5 skills available and the Slayer line only has 4, does not mean that the Slayer line is disadvantaged in anything other than skills, nor that it might not be advantaged in other areas to compensate.

I actually would be more inclined to give a Troll Slayer and Giant Slayer Discipline as a career skill. As someone else pointed out that failing a fear check can give you stress and insanities, all things that fit with a Troll Slayer, but I can also picture a Troll Slayer who does not concentrate on being a battle hungry powerhouse, at least not initially, instead he is simply devoted to his oath and believes so strongly in its power to save his honor that he faces down foe after foe without flinching. I also do not like that the Troll Slayer can get only Tactic Talents, Fearless! is a Reputation Talent after all.

shinma said:

I just see all other careers having strengths in their areas of expertise AND having 5 career skills. Being the skill junkie that I am I see that as a disadvantage.

In what way would you say that that is not a disadvantage? I really am curious.

I think the problem is that you're looking at this extremely narrow.

Troll slayer is a melee-fighting career, so that's the shelf it should be put on.

Troll slayer gets 4 in strength/toughness from start, which is very very potent for a melee fighter. On top of that they get to pick disciplin as racial skill, gets a fortune dice to anyone who has wounded you, and 1 extra wound over humans.

For skills they get weaponskill AND resilience, which is a perfect combo for a melee fighter.

For caree ability they probably gets the best scaling ability (2 def/2 soak after completing first career).

They can only learn 1+1 = 2 skills each career, so it's not like they get hindered here either.

They can get 4 wounds each career, which is the same as Ironbreaker. Only human career that gets this, is the flagelant.

In short, they're the ultimate fighter, so "missing" one skill is really fair, although it doesn't balance it out...

Finally, Warhammer is not about balancing out the careers/actions/weapons etc... because it's not a competition, the GM and the players are creating a story, not seeing who can kill the most monsters/players

The Strolling Bones said:

I clearly said XP in my post, which is exactly what I meant.

The maximum number of career skills a character can train at creation is four. Buying that fifth skill can only happen after character creation, using XP. You might like having more skills trained (me too), but points-wise, the Slayer is not at any sort of disadvantage.

@Bones

I guess I just like skillful characters to a fault. Guess I'm never playing a Slayer

Slayers are not known for their skills in anything except killing stuff. Even then, a great majority of that killing ability comes from their recklessness and sheer ferocity and lack of self preservation. So, yeah ... don't expect Slayers to be all that skillful. That shouldn't be a surprise or unusual for anyone who knows anything about the Warhammer world. I agree, if you are looking for someone who has a lot of skills, you don't want to play a Slayer. Slayers are pretty one dimensional anyway, and unlike a lot of other combat-oriented classes they will have a difficult time doing anything except fighting.

I totally understand what you are saying Spivo, its just from a stand point of design it seems odd to me that EVERY other career (the Swordmaster is quite deadly too, probably more so than the Slayer, although I see this changing with the addition of Omens of War and Blackfire Pass to the mix) gets to acquire 5 skills. I'm in no way complaining or looking at it from a "narrow" perspective. Just curious that is all. You have social careers that give access to abilities that can end fights before they even begin and all sorts of other combos for really solid characters, and they ALL have 5 skills to choose from. Giving a Slayer access to Coordination as a career skill suits the game world and the career type as they are very nimble for Dwarfs and adept at dodging blows. They may take a Death Oath but the creatures that the Slayers seek out have to be worthy enough to defeat them in combat. Its not as though they go to their doom with absolutely no concern for the outcome whatsoever. In fact it states expressly in the Dwarf Armybook from GW's table top battles game (you can't get more cannon than that) that the Slayers you meet are more often than not the most skillful, deadly and talented of the lot. It also says that a Dwarf can never enter a fight with the intention of loosing, therefor a skill such as coordination makes perfectly valid sense in terms of flavor. Even Folklore as a skill CHIOCE (which is really what this is about) would make sense as Slayers are melancholy and Bardesque and at times given to reciting the Saga's of old.

And you don't spend XP El Hefe. When you gain an XP you are given an Advancement Point as well which is then used to purchase Advancements, this is clearly stated in the RAW. XP tracks your characters "time spent adventuring" in the world and Advancement Points act more like skill tree points in Diablo. You are never going to train all 5 skills upon character creation, especially if you are a Dwarf or Elf because of the innate racial skills, however its the lack of Choice that I'm curious about

You all make solid points here, however I still just don't see it. I also like the way Spivo addressed the cooperation aspect that is built into the game!

The Strolling Bones said:

In the episode 5 there was a little confusion at minute 25 about the number of skills every career has, 4 or 5. That was what i meant, but after listen to it again, that was not you:(

Our Troll Slayer has learned some skills outside of his career. As an exmaple he took Tradecraft and the specialisation Tatooing.

Okay I do agree it's weird they're the only class with 4 skills, but I seem to remember from 1st/2nd, that the Slayer careers have very very few skills/talents avail.

And remember, Troll Slayer gets coordination for free as part of their career ability.

But give them Tradeskill Tatoo/Hair dye...

Spivo said:

Great Idea Tradecraft hairdresser, will suggest that to my player. Why does the slayer get coordination for free, i donot understand that?

They get 1 Defence/Soak, +1 extra in each for each completed Slayer career.

I know it's not coordination, but it still pictures how they're good at dodging

Spivo said:

True enough Spivo, True Enough!