Wondering if anybody can confirm that this is only going to add gate openings for the Arkham board?
It says that it contains "New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game . This implies that none of these new mythos cards will open gates in Innsmouth or Dunwich.
So more dilution, no more balance?
Agent of Cthulhu said:
Wondering if anybody can confirm that this is only going to add gate openings for the Arkham board?
It says that it contains "New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game . This implies that none of these new mythos cards will open gates in Innsmouth or Dunwich.
So more dilution, no more balance?
We'lllll see ;')
Agent of Cthulhu said:
Wondering if anybody can confirm that this is only going to add gate openings for the Arkham board?
It says that it contains "New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game . This implies that none of these new mythos cards will open gates in Innsmouth or Dunwich.
So more dilution, no more balance?
I got the impression that FFG were trying to market this expanion to everybody. So even if you only had the base game you can still benefit from this expansion.
There may be additional mythos cards for the other boards too but FFG are drip feeding these details out....
Agent of Cthulhu said:
Wondering if anybody can confirm that this is only going to add gate openings for the Arkham board?
It says that it contains "New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game . This implies that none of these new mythos cards will open gates in Innsmouth or Dunwich.
So more dilution, no more balance?
Oh, blasphemous Yog-Sothoth, not more dilution! I hope FFG will fix this problem in this expansion, instead of worsening it.
_Kroen_ said:
Agent of Cthulhu said:
So more dilution, no more balance?
*assuming it was ever balanced*
this game was broken from day 1
Heh, I guess I meant no additional work done to balance the game.
I'm not sure I'd call it broken, but you get massively different gaming experiences depending upon what investigators/heralds/number of players/difficulty cards/whatever else you use. You can tailor this until you find a difficulty level and gaming experience that suits you.
Problems-wise, the inate randomness doesn't bother me, and the dilution of items and encounters doesn't bother me. And only a few mythos cards have a mechanic that will suffer from dilution, although this is a bit annoying (e.g. act cards/debts come due/story continues etc.). What really bothers me are big board expansions which you'll never need to visit because gates probably won't open there!
Sort it out FFG! Please don't print more Arkham-gate-opening mythos cards just because every AH player can use them! Help save Innsmouth and Dunwich!
Agent of Cthulhu said:
Sort it out FFG! Please don't print more Arkham-gate-opening mythos cards just because every AH player can use them! Help save Innsmouth and Dunwich!
Well it is essentially an 'expansion' Expansion so hopefully your wish will be granted.
I don't think this expansion will cause much in the way of dilution...
Gate cards are pretty easy. If they include one normal OW area, one expansion OW area and one Other, the cards would still be usable for both expansion players and regular players.
Act Mythos Cards. My guess is that they will supply 10-12 extra act cards with instructions along the lines of add 2 additional acts per expansions used over and above the base game and King in Yellow. Hence if you add in Dunwich and CotDP you'd add 4 extra acts taking the grand total in the deck to 10.
Extra Skills - just like all the other small investigator decks (Common Items, Unique Items) - the more the merrier. I supsect we see skils for +1 Max Stamina, +1 Max Sanity and +1 Focus. Not much in the way of dilution here, except that with the more UIs you have the less likely your chances of drawing an Elder Sign. (This probably isn't a bad thing anyway)
Hypnos Cards - Probably point to locations in Kingsport, Innsmouth and Dunwich. Don't use these cards if you aren't using Hypnos / aren't using the relevant board. No diltuion here.
The dilution question, I believe, is for the other boards (or, specifically, Dunwich, and Innsmouth). Dunwich especially suffers, in my eyes, because when it came out, they printed half the Mythos cards for Dunwich and half for the base game. Then they realised that was too little, so when they made Innsmouth, ALL the mythos cards were Innsmouth.
What I (and I think the others) are hoping, is that more Mythos cards are focused on Dunwich and/or Innsmouth, so that more gates open there, thanks to more Mythos cards being inserted for the base game. Here's to hoping that happens! Like I said, to me, especially for Dunwich...poor poor sleepy dunwich...
_Kroen_ said:
As I said, this game was broken from day 1. Let me expand:
When the base game came out and there were no expansions, it was way too easy.
Then Dark Pharoh came out, and it was neat, but Exhibit items were rare. Yes, even with just the base game. But I guess that was the point of them.
Moving on.
Dunwich Horror came out and everyone cheered. Finally, a real crank-up to difficulty, especially with badass Ancient Ones like Glaaki. But that's where things started rolling down the hill. If the base game it was snowing, and in DP it created a snowball, then dunwich rolled the snowball down the mountain. If played with the base game plus DP, dunwich gates were pretty unfrequent. Yes, even back then.
Then the snowball accelerated.
King in Yellow came out. Awesome herald, but even back then the Act deck posed no threat at all. 99% of all games Act III never happened, and in the other 1% it did and the players lost the game. It was too random and not reliable. Also, that was the point in time where all other worlds became Another Dimension.
The snowball got bigger.
Kingsport came out and everyone were like WTF? no unstable locations? Yet the mechanic was quite ingenious in that it could never be diluted. Except that no one wanted to get stuck doing "kingsport duty" and kingsport was left unattended, opening rifts all over. Also, the Great Old Ones came to meat Daisy, which was way more powerful than them. Oh, and Aquatic monsters came out, but they were black-border monsters 100% of the time.
The snowball started crushing everything in its path.
Black Goat of the Woods came out. Ridiculous items, ridiculous wording and a cult that joing it was so rare it practically didn't exist.
The snowball halted.
Innsmouth came along, the expansions people hoped would fix everything. They were dead wrong. As if not having items wasn't enough, the Great Old ones, who cowered in the corner from the wrath of Daisy, came too meet Patrice. And instead of cowering they fled for their lives.
The snowball stopped its halt and kept rolling and rolling and rolling...
Lurker came along.
Turn 1: Hey, lets get those sweet double clues in the woods.
Encounter phase: A gate and a monster appears! Also, btw, as a sidenote, you are devoured.
Boy wasn't that fun.
You haven't changed at all. Dude stop complaining about a game you got rid of. These forums are for fan and people interested in the game.
Innsmouth13 said:
You haven't changed at all. Dude stop complaining about a game you got rid of. These forums are for fan and people interested in the game.
No, it's really important that everyone listen to Kroen's Very Important Opinions About Everything. Otherwise how will they know what Kroen thinks?
Besides, he has changed. A lot. The last time he came back to the forums he didn't change at all, and this time he's come back completely unchanged. Totally different!
Great news! I believe I can confirm that Miskatonic Horror WILL have new Mythos cards opening gates in Innsmouth and Dunwich. To quote the preview, "With nearly 450 new cards, Miskatonic Horror adds new Mythos and Location cards for Dunwich , Kingsport, and Innsmouth , as well as new cards for Gates, Epic Battles, Relationships, Injuries, Madness, Skills, Blights, and much more" (bold added).
It'd be nice if some of the new locations cards offered you opportunities to segue into the other expansions. For example:
Harney Jones' Shack: Harney offers to sell you an item for $3. If you pay, draw one card from the Unique Item or Exhibit Item deck.
North Point Lighthouse: The lights shines over the deep, distant ocean and you suddenly overcome with a sensation of homesickness. If you are using the Innsmouth Horror expansion, draw one Innsmouth Look card, otherwise lose one Sanity.
Esoteric Order of Dagon: The priest is concerned about the activities of other cults in the area, and asks for a volunteer. If you accept, he casts a spell on you to make the cultists believe you are a member. Lose one Sanity and then take either a Cult of One Thousand Membership or a Silver Twilight Lodge Membership.
All of these encounters are playable without the relevant expansions, but become offer more options with additional expansions.
It seems clear to me from the overview description:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1989
That it adds to base game and to expansions as if just "had more in it when you bought it", so whatever your chosen flavour/mix you get something sprinkled on top. Sounds great. If it refines balance anything for any of those in particular, most excellent.
Will be purchased by this victim of the Old Ones with certainty.
As to "he who shall not be named" above, I'm just glad he keeps coming back with variants of same username, helps me decide which posts to ignore.
Rob
valvorik said:
It seems clear to me from the overview description:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1989
That it adds to base game and to expansions as if just "had more in it when you bought it", so whatever your chosen flavour/mix you get something sprinkled on top. Sounds great. If it refines balance anything for any of those in particular, most excellent.
Will be purchased by this victim of the Old Ones with certainty.
As to "he who shall not be named" above, I'm just glad he keeps coming back with variants of same username, helps me decide which posts to ignore.
Rob
That's what is written in the overview, but if you read the more specific, point by point list of what is included then:
* New Skill, Gate, and Mythos cards for the Arkham Horror base game
* New Injury, Madness, Dunwich Location, and Dunwich Horror cards for Dunwich Horror, as well as an all new Dunwich Horror Herald sheet
* New Innsmouth Location and Innsmouth Look cards for Innsmouth Horror
You see, it only lists mythos cards as being added for the base game.
Also, it only lists location cards as being added for Dunwich, Arkham and Innsmouth, not the base game.
Don't get me wrong; I'll probably buy this no matter what it contains! I just think that FFG could make some effort to balance play for all of the people that own lots of expansions and enjoy combining them.
Fair points (to last post).
I'm not so disturbed by lack of more location cards for Arkham as it gets more in each of the small box expansions when you play them.
The small boxes don't add to the location cards for the big boxes so "overall" it's the big boxes that most need more location cards to "keep fresh/changeable" - but that's just IMHO according to my taste and doesn't mean I wouldn't like more Arkham location cards too - of course more more more of everything everything - but I accept trade-offs etc. (some numbercruncher in FFG is presumably balancing what can be stuffed in box with price point etc.).
FYI, I don't tend to play the base game alone much except with newbies and that may influence my view.
Rob
Solan said:
Great news! I believe I can confirm that Miskatonic Horror WILL have new Mythos cards opening gates in Innsmouth and Dunwich. To quote the preview, "With nearly 450 new cards, Miskatonic Horror adds new Mythos and Location cards for Dunwich , Kingsport, and Innsmouth , as well as new cards for Gates, Epic Battles, Relationships, Injuries, Madness, Skills, Blights, and much more" (bold added).
While this does seem to keep hope alive, I see a bit of a problem with the way they worded it. Not only did they smush Kingsport inbetween Dunwich and Innsmouth, but they also included their names after saying "Location cards." HOWEVER! That could mean that the Mythos cards include both gates and board effects (since Kingsport Mythos cards would never open any gates there), as well as Mythos cards AND location cards (instead of Mythos cards *pause pause* and location cards for...). So it DOES look hopeful! However, as many people have suggested, I'm holding my breath.
Besides, I like being surprised instead of disappointed
Solan said:
Great news! I believe I can confirm that Miskatonic Horror WILL have new Mythos cards opening gates in Innsmouth and Dunwich. To quote the preview, "With nearly 450 new cards, Miskatonic Horror adds new Mythos and Location cards for Dunwich , Kingsport, and Innsmouth , as well as new cards for Gates, Epic Battles, Relationships, Injuries, Madness, Skills, Blights, and much more" (bold added).
That sounds reassuring! But I'm still not assuming that this expansion will be a smashing success.
I'm just extremely curious how this expansion would add more Epic Battle cards. Do they mean Ancient One plots?
I would think the new AO plot cards are new greens. One of the problems with the RAW epic battle cards is that you're required to see all eight greens before seeing any reds.
There are a lot of AOs they'd need to cover if they were making Sinister Plot cards, and I'd guess that Daoloth wouldn't see any love.
Tibs said:
I would think the new AO plot cards are new greens. One of the problems with the RAW epic battle cards is that you're required to see all eight greens before seeing any reds.
There are a lot of AOs they'd need to cover if they were making Sinister Plot cards, and I'd guess that Daoloth wouldn't see any love.
Well... If they added more AO plot cards they could do what they did with allies and require a shuffling and discarding of a certain number of them.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I should have followed through.
Fortunately this would work better for Epic Battle than it has for allies.
Tibs said:
Yeah, that's what I meant. I should have followed through.
Fortunately this would work better for Epic Battle than it has for allies.
;'D I refuse to speculate about something that may or may not exist any further... Except that it'd make sense if they did that for them to require the cards that draw sinister plots to remain in the decks, unless more sinister plot cards were added, and they didn't mind making their presence in the decks more random.
Mmm. New house rule. When playing base game AOs, do not use the green deck for final combat. Or possibly only use one green card, yeah, you know which one. The Sinister Plot :'D
I'm going to hijack this thread for a bit, because I have a dilution-related question that I'd love to get an answer too and it is way too small for an own topic. Basically, I just wonder whether you can easily tell from which Exp. a given Mythos card is. Do they say "Dunwich" with small letter down in the corner, or have a symbol, or something like that? I'm wondering because I assume there has to be an easy way to pick out the cards for one Exp. when you don't want to use it.
TheGoose said:
I'm going to hijack this thread for a bit, because I have a dilution-related question that I'd love to get an answer too and it is way too small for an own topic. Basically, I just wonder whether you can easily tell from which Exp. a given Mythos card is. Do they say "Dunwich" with small letter down in the corner, or have a symbol, or something like that? I'm wondering because I assume there has to be an easy way to pick out the cards for one Exp. when you don't want to use it.
Yes, all expansions have a symbol on their mythos cards and encounter cards. Pretty much everything except monsters.
And (getting back on topic), cards in Miskatonic Horror that relate to a certain board/mechanism will have the correlating symbol on the card, still, but will be filled in with gold instead of black. So if an encounter at the Bank (base game) adds a Deep Ones Rising token (Innsmouth) it'll have the Innsmouth symbol filled in gold! It may not be a perfect system, since the idea is to have cross-platform things (say, a gate in dunwich that opens a rift). But it helps to get the job done!
Something tells me that there aren't going to be new Arkham location cards with expansion effects.
The components list cites "New Innsmouth Location cards," which says, to me, new cards for the Innsmouth neighborhoods only. I don't think this expansion was designed in a way to confuse players into mixing in cards that they can't use.